Karaoke Forums

I don't know if Kurt from Soundchoice is still active on the board, but may I make a suggestion? With about an hour of your time, you could easily find about 20 people that are selling pirated hard drives on Ebay/Craigslist/Sale.com, etc.

Just do an Internet search. I would bet that these 20-25 or so peeps are supplying about 80-90% of the illegal KJs out there. I sent a complaint to Ebay yesterday regarding a few that I spotted on there.

Anyway, prosecuting the PROBLEM will always help solve the problem much faster than prosecuting the SYMPTOMS.

I always thought that going after KJs who use illegal drives instead of going after the creaters of the illegal drives is akin to saying that it is more important to go after people who buy (often unknowingly) a stolen car instead of the people who stole the car in the first place.

Anyway, just a suggestion. It doesn't require a private investigator going to karaoke shows all over the country to find the people who steal and distribute karaoke CDG hard drives. In fact, these real pirates ADVERTISE!! Please go get them! I think that is the most efficient way to prevent karaoke piracy.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

I too have reported 2 different sellers to Ebay over the last week.
I even emailed Sound Choice telling them about these guys with a link to the ad.
Both of them sent me lists of what was on the drives and had lots of SC on them.
One was so bold as to post his telephone number.

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A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

Sound Choice has stated on another forum that they bought some of these drives and then turned them over to the FBI.

There's no money in criminal prosecutions, and Kurt's stated that their current business model is primarily based on litigation to recoup lost profits. Sound Choice is not a karaoke company any more, it's a legal firm.

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Dave's not here.

This reminds me of the DirecTV piracy campaign a few years ago. Rather than go after the manufactures of the piracy devices (smart card reader/programmers), they went after the end users who had BOUGHT these devices...whether or not they had actually used them in an illegal manor. If you didn't settle, you faced the threat of a potentially long and expensive legal battle.

After a few years, they ceased when they realized that the campaign stopped a few pirates, but created a LOT more p!ssed off customers and bad publicity. DirecTV did reduce piracy in the end...not from the thousands of civil suits filed all over the country, but by looking at their own product and changing/improving their distribution methods.

This should be the general business model:

1) Eliminate the SOURCE of CDG piracy (hard drive sales)
2) Black market CDGs/hard drives dry up, along with Fly-By-Night KJs
3) Average KJ pay goes up due to lower supply of the service
4) Karaoke Song licensing fees decrease due to lower piracy rate
5) Without black market supply, aspiring and existing KJs must buy the legal product
6) Soundchoice sales AND customer satisfaction increase proportionately

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Problem is, the EBay/Craigslist hard drive sellers aren't the only source. I don't even know if they are the main source. KJs, themselves, are letting people copy thier drives for a fee or copying their own drives many times over and multi-rigging, even transferring their songs to hard drives and selling the discs. There has also been a file sharing site up for years that was supplying some KJs with "every Sound Choice song there is" who were in turn letting others make copies.

Correct, the FBI is involved with all the internet HD/Download/File Sharing issues, so something is being done.

The work doesn't involve the manufacturers so much since it is in the hands of what the Justice Department wants to do with the FBI investigations. Also The POOP is involved collectivly with reporting these sites. The POOP gets most of the ebaY listings removed through the VERO Program, craigslist is a bit more difficult as has been found. Yes, many websites are still up, but it is up to these government agencies to deal with them now. We have reported 6 since we have been POOP members & have only seen 2 disappear, probably taken down by the owners of the sites & they probably have reappeared as different ones! Yes, the Government needs to procecute the people themselves! So much for "Government Agencies" as some posters here at KS & other forums babble on about demanding that the Government, & not SC, should be handling everything.



As far as KJ's swapping/selling pirated SC content, they will get their due once the civil SC Trademark Lawsuit is handed to them & they are found with pirated SC content. They can run but can not hide if they want to continue making money using pirated SC content in a public venue. More lawsuits are coming. Also more lawsuits in the states that already have had suits filed, meaning that if an alleged pirate was missed in the first sweep doesn't mean they got away. Also bear in mind that there are the other manufacturers that still have an option to do similar lawsuits with their Trademarks so just deleting all SC may get one by for a while but if CB & PHM come calling, then what, all a pirate will have is Top Tunes, Backstage, & Music Maestro? Have fun with that!



That is correct, except they are not a "legal firm" as you suggest. SC will produce more music in CDG, mp3+g, & downloadable formats in the future.

Again, the FBI is handling the investigations of the internet HD/Download/File Sharing distribution areas, which is in the governments hands now for the Justice Department to decide where to go next with procecutions. My hat is off to Kurt Slep for doing what he can to recoup proper compensation for his Trademarked product that has been stolen. Bear in mind that SC has to "spend" money to retain a lawyer before they can "make" any money in a litigation, which the attorney gets a percentage, so a monetary investment is needed first.

I sit on the KIAA board representing venues.

That being said, The KJ market needs someone to go through and get rid of all the pirating KJ's. I also applaud Sound Choices efforts, and am doing everything in my power to support it. Every week i'm on the phone trying to find a IP lawyer in my area willing to take on cases. I currently work in a venue that doesn't pay me nearly what it should. I'd love to pack up and move to a better paying venue but ALL of them have been overrun with pirating KJ's. The 90% piracy rate is no joke in my market. For my own, personal advancement it would be nice to see this situation remedied.

The one problem i see with SC's plan is using lawyers on contingency fees. I'm in the Bay Area/Silicon Valley and IP/Copyright lawyers have no shortage of work on retainer here. Other areas of the country that mostly rely on IP for its industries like Dulles Virginia, New York, New York, and Dallas TX probably won't see SC coming there anytime soon simply because IP lawyers in those areas don't need to work that hard to get paid.

Hopefully at some point SC will hire lawyers on retainers in these areas.

Kinda sorta. They really DON'T want to go to court, but rather intimidate KJs into settlements. As posted on another thread, they have almost no chance of a gain in court.

Also, if they go to court, and it's shown that their trademark is attached one of the oh so many unlicensed tracks they sold- where it has no right to be- it will not only invalidate the case, but leave them open to suits from the music owners.

Also as I stated elsewhere: The Audit Acknowledgement document is a truly slimy piece of work. If you sign it, you are actually admitting to guilt whether you are or not. See article 2.

The whole document is filled with trap doors. Never sign anything without council.

So, not really a legal firm, but rather a firm which has a business plan built on intimidation. They also have no real concern about piracy, as it no longer affects them.

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I never did get 'trading' libraries with other kj's. Why would I want my competition to have what I have in return to get the crap that they have that I more than likely didn't want in the first place, otherwise I would have bought them? No way i'm going to give up any edge I might have on my selection to anyone else because I was around when discs were plentiful & I paid for each & every one.

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I donate 2 hours week looking for ebay/craiglist and simalar sites for pre-loaded hard drive sellers and report them all to anyone that lists a report pirates link....I think it's FUN to report these theives

Capitalize those 2 hours and use this search function (linked below). It will consolidate city CL listings and you can search by state. Just plug in Karaoke Drive and select a state. A tool like this would definitely cut down on the search time it would take to find suppliers.

Here's the link: http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/sd.cgi?cat=ele&fil=&state=&submit=go

Thank You hiteck

Thank You hiteck

Just flagged about ten in the northeast area.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I sent 3 more 1 each in Fl/Ga and Sc

Why would anyone want to risk the exposure of buying a hard drive?

Let's be honest, if you want to steal, you can. I can sit here at my desk and download the entire Sound Choice collection off the internet from numerous sources. I don't even have to look very hard.

Between Torrents, Newsgroups, File Sharing sites, IRC, and many, many more methods of sharing - going after the 'source' is problematic at best.

Going after the people who are using illegal materials to make a profit - those people shortcutting the process - is a viable mechanism.

Remember, Sound Choice isn't going after Soccer Mom Sally who's kids downloaded a couple songs to sing after school. They're going after KJ Sally who's got shows they're doing to make money. They're going after a KJ that is (or may have) short cut building a viable library to compete with other KJ's. In short, what they're doing is putting people out of business or forcing them to compete on a level playing field.

I started my karaoke business with a Sweet Georgia Brown set and some 'filler'. I added the SC Foundations within weeks after saving up. I've added many other 'collections' and discs since then. In short, I've made a huge investment, as have many others here. These other KJ's haven't. I know for a fact there's a local multi-op running multiple shows off a single set of discs he's ripped to a hard drive and given copies to his DJ's. Do I turn him in and make myself a 'rat' or wait for him to get his comeuppance? Either way no one really wins...


Going after the people selling the drives is like going after the guy selling drugs. If you arrest him, someone else will be there next week to fill the need. If you put a cop on the corner, they'll be gone until the cop leaves and they'll return.

Turning them in is a good start - but the sellers on eBay are smart. I used to turn them in - but most start their auctions after 5pm EST so SC's offices are closed. They run a 3 day auction and by the time eBay notifies SC and gets a response back that it's illegal - the auction is over, the information exchanged, and the drive sold. I saw this more than 5 years ago when I was reported drive sales on eBay. I was also told then that I had no standing to notify eBay because I wasn't the copyright owner. I notified SC about it... and of course with the offices being closed... well, you see it's just a real pain. They play the game, and they play it well.


Admittedly, I've stopped doing karaoke shows and only do it as an 'add-on' for my other events or for charity, but I still feel the pain. I wish they'd audit my area... I might actually be able to make enough money doing karaoke to justify the cost of updating my library again...

what kind of penalty does the venue face, for example, if their KJ was found to have a pirated library?

Any?

I own a bar, and I pay my BMI and ASCAP fees, so it shouldn't matter what they are using. I'm good on my end.

At least I think so. Any thoughts on this?

Should be paying SESAC too!
If you have karaoke running off computer is a red flag to you to begin with. If you know for fact they have their discs, then it shouldn't become an issue.

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