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US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP
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Author:  c. staley [ Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

MtnKaraoke wrote:
Apparently Chip Staley has a catalog of licensed karaoke tracks that he publishes and distributes on CD+G media. This product is purported to be digitally watermarked in an effort to prohibit duplication. I'm uncertain as to retail availability, wholesale distribution or even the catalog's content but without any reliable sales stats I can't determine if this manufacturer is an example of the health and long term viability of the US based karaoke production.
Available via download at

http://www.redpeterskaraoke.com/

Chris Avis has purchased a number of tracks....

"The Closing Song" is a lovely way to end the evening...


Whether it's long-term or not, any term is better than Phoenix entertainment partner's track record of "no term."

Author:  JimHarrington [ Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

c. staley wrote:
HarringtonLaw wrote:
Think about what you're saying. If we had that kind of agreement, we would be required to keep enormous stock of every disc on hand, forever, with royalties paid, all for the purpose of replacing discs that got scratched. No reasonable person would enter into that kind of obligation, and no reasonable person would expect it.
Not true. Since the program was an exchange, there would be no royalties on such a product because it was exchanged - the KJ had to mail in the unplayable disc. If they didn't have to surrender the original, then all bets are off and yes, royalties would apply. (according to a publisher)

(Homework Jimmy boy, homework.)


Try again. That might be true as long as the licensing was valid, but licensees expire, and the stock remaining after the sell-off period has to be destroyed. The only way to avoid that would be to pay the royalty as though there was a sale.

Even if we wanted to, we could not make a new copy of something that's not in licensing, even if the purpose is to replace something that was once licensed.

Author:  Lonman [ Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

MtnKaraoke wrote:
Party Tyme was owned by Sybersound and yes they were based out of Malibu, CA. I believe that their catalog has been bought out by KSF I guess you could say they "exist" but whether they're "still standing" as a US originated CD+G producer is debatable. (I would add that I am not certain that KSF took over CD+G production and that may remain a function of Sybersound)
As I understand, KSF is just a licensed distributer for Party Tyme material for internet downloads and customs, I do not believe they bought them out as Party Tyme. I could be wrong. Their website is still active & in CA with new material being sold on disc.

Quote:
All Star halted production some time last year... still standing?

But they still sell discs - just nothing current anymore. Stretch or not.

Author:  POETS [ Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

karaokeniagarafalls wrote:
I'm sorry to hear you damaged your disks to the point of being unplayable. If i paid hat much for disks, I would be sure to handle them with more proper care.


MtnKaraoke was correct; there's something lacking in your reading comprehension. At no point did I say any disc of mine was damaged.

Author:  Lonman [ Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

And it was Chartbuster that stated 100% Guaranteed if for any reason CD+G is damaged, scratched or broken at any time, please return it for a direct replacement and only pay for shipping and handling.


This included their entire library discontinued or not - I will look for the email, but they said they'd make a burn for the replacement if it was not available in production.

Author:  Cueball [ Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

karaokeniagarafalls wrote:
I'm sorry to hear you damaged your disks to the point of being unplayable. If i paid hat much for disks, I would be sure to handle them with more proper care.


WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO ASSUME TO KNOW HOW SOMEONE ELSE HAS TREATED THEIR DISCS???!!!!!!!!

SH** Happens!!!! Pin Holes appear!!!! Scractches occur from normal usage!!!!

Author:  Cueball [ Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

MtnKaraoke wrote:
Lonman wrote:
karaokeniagarafalls wrote:
I sell many disks on here for 50 cents each.

For that price i'd buy every disc you have left sight unseen


Haha! For that price, I'd double the price and take every single CD+G she has.



Now now... She said MANY, not ALL. She did NOT define what MANY equals (or which brands).

BUT... Since KNF offered. I'll take one of SC8125 for 50 cents if you've still got it (and IF KNF is offering it at 50 cents... HECK!!! I'll even pay 1 DOLLAH!!!).

Author:  Toastedmuffin [ Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

I can use a copy of 8148.... where do i send my $.50 to?

I don't want Cueball to get away so cheap on 8125.. I Give you a dollar PLUS an extra quarter! Woo Hoo $1.25, I am a big time spender!

(Tell you what Cueball, if she goes for it, we can split the cost and send it back and forth between us for "visitation")

:rotflmao:

Author:  SINGA USA [ Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

MtnKaraoke wrote:
Lonman wrote:
MtnKaraoke wrote:
Not one single US originated CD+G producer still standing...

party Tyme karaoke still exists, All Star karaoke still exists - both make cdg. Although it does seem All Star might have halted production - at least haven't released anything for a while.

Party Tyme was owned by Sybersound and yes they were based out of Malibu, CA. I believe that their catalog has been bought out by KSF I guess you could say they "exist" but whether they're "still standing" as a US originated CD+G producer is debatable. (I would add that I am not certain that KSF took over CD+G production and that may remain a function of Sybersound)


You are misinformed. Sybersound is the owner and producer of both Party Tyme Karaoke and Billboard Karaoke brands. They have been a US based company for more than 20 years. KSF is a digital distributor for the company and handles their streaming service, custom disc service and downloads. They continue to put out physical discs at www.partytyme.com and continue to sell thousands of each realease in several major retails stores around the world. There is nothing to debate and I have made clear our relationship from the start. So please refrain from spreading inaccurate information.

Author:  SINGA USA [ Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

Lonman wrote:
And it was Chartbuster that stated 100% Guaranteed if for any reason CD+G is damaged, scratched or broken at any time, please return it for a direct replacement and only pay for shipping and handling.


This included their entire library discontinued or not - I will look for the email, but they said they'd make a burn for the replacement if it was not available in production.

Perhaps this type of "warrantee" helped contribute to CB's downfall. As Jim pointed out, once a license expires for a pressed disc, you have a selloff window and the remainder of stock must be destroyed. There is no allowance for "burning a replacement".

Author:  MtnKaraoke [ Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

I stand corrected.

Sybersound and Chip Staley/Red Peters are still standing.

There's your source for US produced CD+Gs.

Author:  Karaoke Croaker [ Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

AND NEITHER OF THEM SEEM TO BE PUTTING OUT ANY CURRENT HITS that people actually are looking to sing. At least SBI & KV try to stay current. I believe that BKD tracks are aslo made in America, whether they are properly licensed or not?

Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

JimHarrington wrote:
c. staley wrote:
Harrington may have said that it's not over, but as far as trademark infringement is concerned, it is.


You don't seem to be aware--and why would you? You were never really one to see details--that this ruling only affects, at most, our ability to sue regarding infringement of the "goods" trademarks by venues in Wisconsin, Illinois, and Indiana.

We still have registrations covering the Sound Choice mark as a service mark, backed by about two decades of continuous use, both directly and by our controlled licensees.

And our suits for trademark infringement will continue in the states not covered by the Seventh Circuit.

So, enjoy your premature ejaculations of victory.

Ummm, Jim..........What are you going to do if, little by little, ALL the districts follow suit, and say your trademark cases against media-shifters are not actionable?? There goes a whole segment of your income. Then, as has been mentioned, you will HAVE to go after the REAL pirates, rather then the "technical infringers".

Author:  SINGA USA [ Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

Karaoke Croaker wrote:
AND NEITHER OF THEM SEEM TO BE PUTTING OUT ANY CURRENT HITS that people actually are looking to sing. At least SBI & KV try to stay current. I believe that BKD tracks are aslo made in America, whether they are properly licensed or not?

BKD is NOT a manufacturer. It is one guy in Las Vegas who buys a backing track from anywhere he can find ie. Karaoke Version, SBI, or iTunes - doesn't matter. He authors the track no differently than any other home user who makes their own homemade karaoke songs using a standard karaoke software and he sells them. He is not a legit business. He is no different than the pirates that many of you disparage regularly. So by supporting him you are supporting a pirate. At least when you buy from a legit manufacturer, whether they are based here or in the UK, they are paying something for the rights to do so.

It is easy to say that "at least SBI and KV are trying to put out current hits". They are unrestrained and can produce whatever they want. We produce the same tracks, but until we have clearance to use them, they sit on our server waiting to be released. It is what it is.

Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

KSFGROUP wrote:

It is easy to say that "at least SBI and KV are trying to put out current hits". They are unrestrained and can produce whatever they want. We produce the same tracks, but until we have clearance to use them, they sit on our server waiting to be released. It is what it is.

Hi Michael. How is it going with the "No Flies"? Are you making any progress??

Author:  Lonman [ Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

KSFGROUP wrote:
Lonman wrote:
And it was Chartbuster that stated 100% Guaranteed if for any reason CD+G is damaged, scratched or broken at any time, please return it for a direct replacement and only pay for shipping and handling.


This included their entire library discontinued or not - I will look for the email, but they said they'd make a burn for the replacement if it was not available in production.

Perhaps this type of "warrantee" helped contribute to CB's downfall. As Jim pointed out, once a license expires for a pressed disc, you have a selloff window and the remainder of stock must be destroyed. There is no allowance for "burning a replacement".
Oh i'm sure there were a lot of things that factored to their demise. Maybe their thinking was as long as the original was coming back and destroyed, the replacement would simply be like the original never existed in the first place. Who knows.

Author:  Lonman [ Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

MtnKaraoke wrote:
I stand corrected.

Sybersound and Chip Staley/Red Peters are still standing.

There's your source for US produced CD+Gs.
And All Star - again, nothing current but still make, produce, sell cdg discs.

Author:  Karaoke Croaker [ Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

KSFGROUP wrote:
Karaoke Croaker wrote:
AND NEITHER OF THEM SEEM TO BE PUTTING OUT ANY CURRENT HITS that people actually are looking to sing. At least SBI & KV try to stay current. I believe that BKD tracks are aslo made in America, whether they are properly licensed or not?

BKD is NOT a manufacturer. It is one guy in Las Vegas who buys a backing track from anywhere he can find ie. Karaoke Version, SBI, or iTunes - doesn't matter. He authors the track no differently than any other home user who makes their own homemade karaoke songs using a standard karaoke software and he sells them. He is not a legit business. He is no different than the pirates that many of you disparage regularly. So by supporting him you are supporting a pirate. At least when you buy from a legit manufacturer, whether they are based here or in the UK, they are paying something for the rights to do so.

It is easy to say that "at least SBI and KV are trying to put out current hits". They are unrestrained and can produce whatever they want. We produce the same tracks, but until we have clearance to use them, they sit on our server waiting to be released. It is what it is.


BKD sells tracks that people want to buy. The KJs who buy these tracks for the people who come to their shows to sing are just filling requests that their customers ask for. Since it has been said that 90% of all KJs are pirates anyway, why should the singing public care if their local KJ buys tracks from some guy in Vegas? The BKD tracks wind up in the same places that all of the pirated Sound Choice tracks end up for all the world to share. I won't use the word NOBODY, but very few people care who makes the tracks they download. All they care about is getting the new popular songs for their singers.

Author:  SINGA USA [ Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

Karaoke Croaker wrote:
KSFGROUP wrote:
Karaoke Croaker wrote:
AND NEITHER OF THEM SEEM TO BE PUTTING OUT ANY CURRENT HITS that people actually are looking to sing. At least SBI & KV try to stay current. I believe that BKD tracks are aslo made in America, whether they are properly licensed or not?

BKD is NOT a manufacturer. It is one guy in Las Vegas who buys a backing track from anywhere he can find ie. Karaoke Version, SBI, or iTunes - doesn't matter. He authors the track no differently than any other home user who makes their own homemade karaoke songs using a standard karaoke software and he sells them. He is not a legit business. He is no different than the pirates that many of you disparage regularly. So by supporting him you are supporting a pirate. At least when you buy from a legit manufacturer, whether they are based here or in the UK, they are paying something for the rights to do so.

It is easy to say that "at least SBI and KV are trying to put out current hits". They are unrestrained and can produce whatever they want. We produce the same tracks, but until we have clearance to use them, they sit on our server waiting to be released. It is what it is.


BKD sells tracks that people want to buy. The KJs who buy these tracks for the people who come to their shows to sing are just filling requests that their customers ask for. Since it has been said that 90% of all KJs are pirates anyway, why should the singing public care if their local KJ buys tracks from some guy in Vegas? The BKD tracks wind up in the same places that all of the pirated Sound Choice tracks end up for all the world to share. I won't use the word NOBODY, but very few people care who makes the tracks they download. All they care about is getting the new popular songs for their singers.


I don't agree with the 90% pirate ratio but that's another argument. The singing public doesn't care about anything, legit KJ's should. You can justify supporting piracy in whatever way works for you. I'm just stating the facts.

Author:  Karaoke Croaker [ Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: US Court of Appeals upholds court ruling against PEP

I google karaoke and buykaraokedownloads pops up on my screen. It is not my job to investigate the company. It is not my job to determine that what you say about that company is true or not. That company is a competitor of yours so have have a motivation to try to sully their name and try to get people to stop purchasing their products. There have been many karaoke companies through out the years that have produced karaoke tracks without having the proper licensing to do so, yet KJs all over the world bought their products as quickly as they could. Most, if pot all, of those companies are now out of business yet no KJs have decided to throw away all of the discs made by those companies in an effort to stay completely legitimate. I'm not throwing away any karaoke music that I have bought and paid for in good faith. BKD is not any more illegal that All Hits, Dangerous, Helluvadisc, or even Music Maestro, for that matter; as far as I'm concerned. I don't think that many KJs feel differently than I do in that regard. You would like to have a monopoly on the future of karaoke but it's not very likely to go that way because people like me will be happy to buy karaoke tracks from anyone willing to make them, if they make songs that people want to sing at our shows. If you make karaoke tracks of good songs in a timely matter; people will buy them from you as well. If you snooze, you will lose. It's just that simple. KJs are an impatient bunch. we want whet we want and we want it as soon as possible. We don't investigate every company that advertises their wares on the internet. We are KJ,s and not private investigators.

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