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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Lonnie nailed it. Put out a book full of those "deep album" cuts, and they get sung. I concentrated on obscure music from the very start, when I began buying my first discs in 1998, and it's always set me apart from the other hosts in Chicago (which was the goal all along). Hardly a show goes by I don't have someone run up pointing at my book saying "Oh my god, you have THIS song?! I've never seen that at any show anywhere! Can I sing it please?". And this is all the more surprising to people because my book is only a tenth as large as the guys down the street with 100,000 songs. I go to those competitors shows myself sometimes, the ones with enormous lists, and can't find anything I want to sing myself. But I'll never run out of things to try in my own book, even if I never bought another song.

I see these lists KJ's post every year or so of the most overdone songs at their shows, the ones everyone is sick of, and I go, huh, I rarely hear most of them more that a couple times a year (and I do 2 to 3 shows a week). Some of them, not even once a year. Stats like "Give Me One Reason" done 100 times, or "Bohemian Rhapsody" done 300 times boggle my mind. My customers only pick those songs a couple times a month, because they find so much more in my books, even though they aren't the largest books by any means.

Alan is correct, it's not how many you have, it's WHAT you have that makes all the difference. When I took my first weekly bar gig 12 years ago, I only had 4800 songs, and I wasn't adding many new songs the first few years because I was broke, and it was still a smashing success. I'll be content to never exceed 12,000, because I just won't need more.

It's the book itself that is most important. People won't realize what you have unless you put out physical books. Customers love to browse the things, and they will discover new stuff they want to try. Instead of staring at their phones, everyone at a given table is passing a book back and forth showing their friends what they've found or what they want someone else to try. Karaoke is first and foremost a social experience, and books facilitate that in ways kiosks and smartphone apps never will. I'm tired of hearing it called "old fashioned". The smartest way to do something isn't always the newest way. Computerizing a process makes some things better, but it also makes some things worse.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:12 pm 
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mrmarog wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
Song books rule!! They are the reason so many different songs get sung at my venues. Without them it would pretty much be the classics.

Having physical songbooks is great for those still living in the flip phone age or before that but the phone apps allow those who have smartphones to free up the books for singers who don't have smartphones. Books are in limited quantities whereas most carry smartphones. Not everyone but a vast majority of them have smartphones and in this age of lazyness, I have worked at or been to shows where some singers have chosen to sing from their seat, I have not been to places in this century that actually had a stage area for the singers, with the exception of a short lived gig at a place where the owners couldn't make up their minds on anything.

"Ummm", Danny, Why do people write and sell so many books..... it's because people prefer books. Smartphones are not the "go to" for everything. Secondly you must live in a rat hole society if nowhere, that has karaoke, has a stage to sing from. What fun would that be? I truly feel sorry for you :cry: I can't think of a single place I've been to in the last 20 years that didn't have a dedicated stage/spot for the singer to sing from.

Most bars here added entertainment as an afterthought. There is a bar that doesn't have karaoke yet, but considering it. It has a stage but it's the exception rather than the rule.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:01 pm 
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Brian A wrote:
Eyebrow raising moment from sc email of 6/12/2018

"In a four-hour show, you can only play about 60 songs, so you don't need to have tens of thousands of songs - you just need the RIGHT songs! And the GEM Series includes 99% of the songs you need.



99%?????????? I seriously doubt that. There's so much stuff that's come out in the past 8 years (during the time when SC stopped producing anything).


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:31 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
Song books rule!! They are the reason so many different songs get sung at my venues. Without them it would pretty much be the classics.

Having physical songbooks is great for those still living in the flip phone age or before that but the phone apps allow those who have smartphones to free up the books for singers who don't have smartphones. Books are in limited quantities whereas most carry smartphones. Not everyone but a vast majority of them have smartphones and in this age of lazyness, I have worked at or been to shows where some singers have chosen to sing from their seat, I have not been to places in this century that actually had a stage area for the singers, with the exception of a short lived gig at a place where the owners couldn't make up their minds on anything.
Yeah have to strongly disagree, books are still a nice plus for most kj's that offer them - young or old crowds alike, mine are younger and very 'tech' savvy and most still prefer books over using their phone to look up songs. Oh and we still have a stage! Very few do not utilize it, but the majority do.
Books for karaoke are becoming obsolete for the simple fact it's the KJ'S that are lazy and cheap and don't want to take the time to pay for and put them together - period! People actually get surprised when they ask me for songs and I show them a physical book (while giving them the phone app info too), they tend to choose the book more often than not.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:42 am 
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Elementary Penguin wrote:
Hardly a show goes by I don't have someone run up pointing at my book saying "Oh my god, you have THIS song?! I've never seen that at any show anywhere! Can I sing it please?". And this is all the more surprising to people because my book is only a tenth as large as the guys down the street with 100,000 songs. I go to those competitors shows myself sometimes, the ones with enormous lists, and can't find anything I want to sing myself. But I'll never run out of things to try in my own book, even if I never bought another song.
BINGO! Same here. The best thing is hearing "the other kj's don't have books" or "other kj's said this song doesn't exist".

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I see these lists KJ's post every year or so of the most overdone songs at their shows, the ones everyone is sick of, and I go, huh, I rarely hear most of them more that a couple times a year (and I do 2 to 3 shows a week). Some of them, not even once a year. Stats like "Give Me One Reason" done 100 times, or "Bohemian Rhapsody" done 300 times boggle my mind. My customers only pick those songs a couple times a month, because they find so much more in my books, even though they aren't the largest books by any means.
SAME! The top most sung song last year at my show was Girl Crush - 86 times total out of 365 days - and this is in a 7 night a week club. Since i've been buying the obscure and hard to find tracks my 'unique' songs sung per year have been increasing every year and the most sung songs have been decreasing each year.

Quote:
Alan is correct, it's not how many you have, it's WHAT you have that makes all the difference. When I took my first weekly bar gig 12 years ago, I only had 4800 songs, and I wasn't adding many new songs the first few years because I was broke, and it was still a smashing success. I'll be content to never exceed 12,000, because I just won't need more.
Of course it what you have that makes the difference. After 25 + years I just topped 21,500 unique tracks, but a good majority of them are songs that no other shows offer.

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It's the book itself that is most important. People won't realize what you have unless you put out physical books. Customers love to browse the things, and they will discover new stuff they want to try. Instead of staring at their phones, everyone at a given table is passing a book back and forth showing their friends what they've found or what they want someone else to try. Karaoke is first and foremost a social experience, and books facilitate that in ways kiosks and smartphone apps never will. I'm tired of hearing it called "old fashioned". The smartest way to do something isn't always the newest way. Computerizing a process makes some things better, but it also makes some things worse.
People still will utilize the phone apps if offered, but i've found it's more of a secondary thing if physical books are offered as well!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:58 am 
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I'd love to see the size of the Book of one of those pirates with 400,000 songs in their computer. LOL


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:12 am 
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KJKILLER wrote:
I'd love to see the size of the Book of one of those pirates with 400,000 songs in their computer. LOL


Rumor on the street is, too big of a book to steal.. :o


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:01 am 
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Lonman wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
Song books rule!! They are the reason so many different songs get sung at my venues. Without them it would pretty much be the classics.

Having physical songbooks is great for those still living in the flip phone age or before that but the phone apps allow those who have smartphones to free up the books for singers who don't have smartphones. Books are in limited quantities whereas most carry smartphones. Not everyone but a vast majority of them have smartphones and in this age of lazyness, I have worked at or been to shows where some singers have chosen to sing from their seat, I have not been to places in this century that actually had a stage area for the singers, with the exception of a short lived gig at a place where the owners couldn't make up their minds on anything.
Yeah have to strongly disagree, books are still a nice plus for most kj's that offer them - young or old crowds alike, mine are younger and very 'tech' savvy and most still prefer books over using their phone to look up songs. Oh and we still have a stage! Very few do not utilize it, but the majority do.
Books for karaoke are becoming obsolete for the simple fact it's the KJ'S that are lazy and cheap and don't want to take the time to pay for and put them together - period! People actually get surprised when they ask me for songs and I show them a physical book (while giving them the phone app info too), they tend to choose the book more often than not.

I used to be of the persuasion of having just one or the other. Once I get my files straight, so I don't have any duplicates listed that don't need to be (if the songs are different like live,studio, male or female solo etc. They get listed but if they are close to being the exact same version just different manufacturers then I don't want to list them to save paper) I will print up new books.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:09 am 
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LOL...Books?
1. 400,000 songs...No Problem.
2. Cutting out the Dups...No Problem.
3. Laughing at other KJs who use Books...No Problem.
4. Singers having a PROBLEM reading those "Books" in the LOW LIGHT...No Problem.
5. Singer only has a "Book" listed by either the Artist or SongTitle, but NOT Both because it cost YOU too much to make enough so that EACH Singer can have BOTH; that list your 400,000 songs, of course...No Problem.
6. A typo...No Problem.
7. Sorting MOST USED Songs...No Problem.
8. Hate looking out at the audience from the STAGE and thinking, "Am I in a Library?"...No Problem.
9. What, can't search for a WORD or String of WORDS with a BOOK...No Problem.
10. What, your BOOK doesn't list LANGUAGES...No Problem.

See, I use a thing called a Kiosk that is a Computer with Song Finding Software that singers use to locate their songs where ALL those previously mentioned PROBLEMS DISAPPEAR. And, it gets Singers UP off their A#ses where they meet other Singers, if but only to ASK how the Software Works.

Now, why don't YOU laugh a little MORE about the "400,000" Songs...because, MY SYSTEM IS UNLIMITED!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:00 am 
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gd123 wrote:
1. 400,000 songs...No Problem.
Anyone with 400K tracks isn't legal anyway and don't care if they have a book or not as they would 'think' they have everything anyway.
Quote:
2. Cutting out the Dups...No Problem.
Yep absolutely no problem. I go through every time I buy new music to make sure I don't already have it. If I buy discs with dups, I only list songs that I do not have.
Quote:
3. Laughing at other KJs who use Books...No Problem.
Stupid statement.
Quote:
4. Singers having a PROBLEM reading those "Books" in the LOW LIGHT...No Problem.
I've always offered little flashlights back in the day and today almost everyone has a phone with a flashlight built in so no problem.
Quote:
5. Singer only has a "Book" listed by either the Artist or SongTitle, but NOT Both because it cost YOU too much to make enough so that EACH Singer can have BOTH; that list your 400,000 songs, of course...No Problem.
I offer both Artist and title books, both labeled and color coded. No problem. And again a 400K kj isn't ever going to have a book - nor any other means to search.
Quote:
6. A typo...No Problem.
Typos happen, if it's typed wrong in your hosting software you aren't going to find it either. This is just something that kj's should go through - especially when buying new music to make sure you match the artist listing to previous artists and titles.
Quote:
7. Sorting MOST USED Songs...No Problem.
With the right software - no problem. Hoster and Compuhost I know both have that ability.
Quote:
8. Hate looking out at the audience from the STAGE and thinking, "Am I in a Library?"...No Problem.
Another dumb statement. As long as it is karaoke related whats the difference? Chances are more than likely they are going to be doing something on their phone.
Quote:
9. What, can't search for a WORD or String of WORDS with a BOOK...No Problem.
Whoa, this one is actually has merit - but a simple remedy in this case, the singer will ask or use the phone app.
Quote:
10. What, your BOOK doesn't list LANGUAGES...No Problem.
I don't denote anything by language anyway - so yep no problem.

Quote:
See, I use a thing called a Kiosk that is a Computer with Song Finding Software that singers use to locate their songs where ALL those previously mentioned PROBLEMS DISAPPEAR. And, it gets Singers UP off their A#ses where they meet other Singers, if but only to ASK how the Software Works.
Wanting to take the kiosk to the table to peruse at your own leisure? No Problem??

See I have this thing called 'options'. They can look in physical books, electronic phone apps or they can simply ask me. I used kiosks for a while, took them out when I got the phone apps, no one really used it anyway.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Quote:
KJKILLER
I'd love to see the size of the Book of one of those pirates with 400,000 songs in their computer.
There, I quoted it. Humm...looks like I wasn't the one who initially posted the number...wait for it...400,000.

Quote:
1. 400,000 songs...No Problem.
Anyone with 400K tracks isn't legal anyway and don't care if they have a book or not as they would 'think' they have everything anyway.
Who GAF whether YOU think that someone is LEGAL or NOT. That wasn't the POINT, now was it? The "Morphed Conversation," at least from MY point of View, was SONG BOOKS and their EASE of use.

Quote:
3. Laughing at other KJs who use Books...No Problem.
Stupid statement.
Obviously, YOU don't see KJKILLER's SLIGHT to any KJ who would want to print a book that had...wait for it in KJKILLER's words...400,000 songs. It goes away because my UNLIMITED DB short circuits his snide remark that a KJ would, and I paraphrase, "LACK the fortitude to PRINT such a LARGE volume of Songs." He FAILED to broaden his horizons to the Computer Age to see that it IS POSSIBLE...and, VERY COST EFFECTIVE when a Song Book gets that big.

Quote:
4. Singers having a PROBLEM reading those "Books" in the LOW LIGHT...No Problem.
I've always offered little flashlights back in the day and today almost everyone has a phone with a flashlight built in so no problem.
Flashlights...here, let me hold that flashlight in my mouth pointed at the song while I turn the pages and hold a writing widget with one hand and write the information while steadying the request slip with the other hand. Even a Phone Light needs to be held and directed.

My KIOSKs have nice bright 17" ELO TOUCHSCREEN Point-Of-Sale quality monitors that have SEALED tops so drinks cannot be poured into them. Doesn't REQUIRE a Singer to hold anything but their DRINK.

Quote:
6. A typo...No Problem.
Typos happen, if it's typed wrong in your hosting software you aren't going to find it either. This is just something that kj's should go through - especially when buying new music to make sure you match the artist listing to previous artists and titles.
I wasn't TAKING ABOUT HOSTING SOFTWARE. I was TALKING ABOUT THE KIOSK SOFTWARE and the EASE with which to correct TYPOS. So to, actually, explain. Here goes:
First, I DO NOT use ALL the DATA from the HOSTING SOFTWARE. I use a modified ACCESS DB so I can trim down Duplicates. *Sidenote: I am NOT about to go into the HOSTING Software and disable listings ONE-AT-A-TIME. So, once the ACCESS DATA is corrected, a JUMP DRIVE is all that is needed to update the KIOSK Computers...in my case TWO KIOSKS.

Now, the comparison: To correct a TYPO in a BOOK, one would need to identify which PAGE had the problem, correct the TYPO, reprint that exact page, and replace the PAGE in, however many BOOKS you have that would include all by TITLE and all by ARTIST. If you had 20 Books, that would be 20 pages.

This is the computer age and should be embraced.

Quote:
10. What, your BOOK doesn't list LANGUAGES...No Problem.
I don't denote anything by language anyway - so yep no problem.
Hum, I guess this forum is just for LAND-LOCKED Kjs who see very few foreign people and the Kjs who do just say, "Who gives-a-F about them."

Quote:
See I have this thing called 'options'. They can look in physical books, electronic phone apps or they can simply ask me. I used kiosks for a while, took them out when I got the phone apps, no one really used it anyway.
Can your phone app limit the number of requests submitted by a SINGLE Singer so that you don't have to scroll through a mile long list to find a Singer's Next Song? People abuse apps just like they do with REQUEST SLIPS.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:38 pm 
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WOW!
Again a 400K kj is never going to put out a listing of any kind, yes it would be funny to see but it will never happen, I doubt they would even put out electronic listings - so MOOT POINT! I do realize it was sarcasm. I was mainly commenting on your other bullet points for books in general.

You really make out using a flashlight much more difficult than it really needs to be lol! Most of the people I see use them turn the page, hold the light with one hand and read. When they need to go to the next page - they turn it with their free hand. When they need to write down the song, the put the flashlight down and pick up a pen.

Kiosks are great - but you can't take one to your table to peruse at your own leisure. Drink proof or not. Now if you were offering the kiosk on portable devices that they can take to their table - that's different.

Well my hosting software has the ability to create books and remove duplicates automatically, but I have my own database that I create my books from that i've already removed the dups over the years and spellcheck often. My phone search app I just upload the saved csv file and it updates automatically.

If I see a typo in the book, I note the song and fix in the database. Since it's not as crucial in a printed songbook, as long as someone has a general ability to understand how to read - they can figure out that Freinds In Low Places actually means Friends In Low Places since it would be in the same general area in a printed book. On an electronic search a typo is actually more crucial to finding a song properly. And when I do see typos I fix the electronic books automatically - on the spot in some cases if it's really bad.

Language - I do not get a lot of foreign language song requests, maybe 2 in 25 years in my main rig so yeah not an issue. If I suddenly got influxed by foreign language requests - I would note those songs as such as both my software and electronic searches as they both allow for this capability if needed. When I ran a 2nd rig it was in 2 Mexican places that I did have a separate Spanish/Latino book aside from the regular books. But I sold that system about 10 years ago. The club that bought it took out all the Spanish songs and threw away those books.

Can my phone app limit - yes I can tell it to allow 1 song per to unlimited per single singer or turn off the request feature completely and only allow it to be a search by the singer. They can actually either register a free account or login via Facebook and create their own folders of favorite songs as well so they can always have access to all the songs they sing. It also automatically integrates with my hosting software if I choose. I can turn off requests at any point, give shoutouts to singers telling them they are coming up if I don't see them, drink specials and more. But I choose to turn it off the request feature for the shows and use it as a song search only. I prefer them to come to me in the first place.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:52 pm 
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Elementary Penguin wrote:
Lonnie nailed it. Put out a book full of those "deep album" cuts, and they get sung. I concentrated on obscure music from the very start, when I began buying my first discs in 1998, and it's always set me apart from the other hosts in Chicago (which was the goal all along). Hardly a show goes by I don't have someone run up pointing at my book saying "Oh my god, you have THIS song?! I've never seen that at any show anywhere! Can I sing it please?". And this is all the more surprising to people because my book is only a tenth as large as the guys down the street with 100,000 songs. I go to those competitors shows myself sometimes, the ones with enormous lists, and can't find anything I want to sing myself. But I'll never run out of things to try in my own book, even if I never bought another song.

I see these lists KJ's post every year or so of the most overdone songs at their shows, the ones everyone is sick of, and I go, huh, I rarely hear most of them more that a couple times a year (and I do 2 to 3 shows a week). Some of them, not even once a year. Stats like "Give Me One Reason" done 100 times, or "Bohemian Rhapsody" done 300 times boggle my mind. My customers only pick those songs a couple times a month, because they find so much more in my books, even though they aren't the largest books by any means.

Alan is correct, it's not how many you have, it's WHAT you have that makes all the difference. When I took my first weekly bar gig 12 years ago, I only had 4800 songs, and I wasn't adding many new songs the first few years because I was broke, and it was still a smashing success. I'll be content to never exceed 12,000, because I just won't need more.

It's the book itself that is most important. People won't realize what you have unless you put out physical books. Customers love to browse the things, and they will discover new stuff they want to try. Instead of staring at their phones, everyone at a given table is passing a book back and forth showing their friends what they've found or what they want someone else to try. Karaoke is first and foremost a social experience, and books facilitate that in ways kiosks and smartphone apps never will. I'm tired of hearing it called "old fashioned". The smartest way to do something isn't always the newest way. Computerizing a process makes some things better, but it also makes some things worse.


I agree 101% Elementary Penguin,
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:25 am 
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Since this thread has turned into a To Book Or Not To Book thread I'll throw myself into the fray.

I hate the Books period. Will never use them again. A pain to keep up and to keep up with. I've had a few come up missing. All get sticky somewhere in it from drinks being spilled. Then just how many times have they been opened up or dropped on the floor and the alphabetizing is now out of order?

I went to downloading everything on a spare laptop and utilizing old Winamp they could look a song up and listen through headphones to the versions available. I liked that right up until someone spilled a drink on it.

Now, I utilize songbookslive.com. I don't care if they don't have a cell phone or are not tech savy. Those folks are usually the ones screwing up my books and laptop anyway. Now everyone can see what I have 24 hours a day, not just at my show.

I simply tell those not savy to write down what they want and if I do not have it or am unable to download it on the fly I will let them know. They will not lose their place in the rotation. They should know what they want to sing and what they sing when they're alone anyway. I may make a suggestion, but usually not, because I am busy mixing.

What keeps my people coming back has nothing to do with books and everything to do with my mixing abilities to match their voice to the type song, genre, etc. Not every song's vocal recording was voiced the same way in the studio. Listen to how the Beatles used differing EFX as well as how others used them, also. That way karaoke does not have to sound karaoke, anymore. Of course it helps to have a board/mixer that is not tied directly to it's manufacturers presets (dial).

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:28 am 
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Lonman wrote:
Kiosks are great - but you can't take one to your table to peruse at your own leisure. Drink proof or not. Now if you were offering the kiosk on portable devices that they can take to their table - that's different.


I have TWO $45 tablets that says you can take it to your table.... in addition to a full-size stand up kiosk with a 15" touchscreen that becomes a socializing point for singers.

And yes, you can "browse" on a kiosk.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:29 pm 
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c. staley wrote:
Lonman wrote:
Kiosks are great - but you can't take one to your table to peruse at your own leisure. Drink proof or not. Now if you were offering the kiosk on portable devices that they can take to their table - that's different.


I have TWO $45 tablets that says you can take it to your table.... in addition to a full-size stand up kiosk with a 15" touchscreen that becomes a socializing point for singers.

And yes, you can "browse" on a kiosk.

most singers have a portable kiosk in their pocket, and more keep using it all the time. i'm around 40% coming in from phones (i can see when they are logged in themselves vs the kiosk). my favorite part is the "just added" button. i get so many more uses out of downloaded songs since they go in the just added the day i get them. the next day people are requesting it (they go right to that button when they first log on). could not keep reprinting new stuff every day with books.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:31 pm 
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c. staley wrote:
Lonman wrote:
Kiosks are great - but you can't take one to your table to peruse at your own leisure. Drink proof or not. Now if you were offering the kiosk on portable devices that they can take to their table - that's different.


I have TWO $45 tablets that says you can take it to your table.... in addition to a full-size stand up kiosk with a 15" touchscreen that becomes a socializing point for singers.

And yes, you can "browse" on a kiosk.
There you go.
And browsing on a kiosk or phone is not the same as a physical book sitting on your table you can take your time to go through. Can someone take the table and keep it at their table all night or is there some kind of limit?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:56 pm 
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Lonman wrote:
There you go.
And browsing on a kiosk or phone is not the same as a physical book sitting on your table you can take your time to go through. Can someone take the table and keep it at their table all night or is there some kind of limit?

They can keep a tablet at their table as long as they are actively using it. Otherwise, it goes to someone else. A songbook "sitting on your table" is also useless if no one is using it. And no flashlight is required with a kiosk.

Besides, if the average cost of a set of books (10 being a conservative number) and the cost being approx. $20 per book when you include paper, sleeves, binders, slips, pencils and flashlights.... AND, you entirely replace those books every 18 months, then over a period of 10 years you will have spent about $1,333.33 not including the time it takes to assemble them, repair them, update them etc...

If you use a db service and that cost is $15 month with third party advertising tacked on.. you would be paying $1,800.00 or with no advertising, $2,900.00 over the same time period.

My kiosk software can handle as many tablets as you can put in a room but if you used 10 tablets + the software costs, you're still looking at only about $600 over 10 years and updates are instantaneous plus, it only advertises MY business or the club I'm in.

That's half the price of paper books and 1/3 of a db service.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:17 pm 
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As a singer I prefer a physical book so as I kj I will always offer what I like to see as a singer. Along with other electronic options for those that do not want to open a book. And again, even though the phone app use is growing, the majority of our singers appreciate the books and actually tell me this - to much dismay to other kj's. It's worth it to me.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:45 pm 
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dvdgdry wrote:
I hate the Books period. Will never use them again. A pain to keep up and to keep up with. I've had a few come up missing. All get sticky somewhere in it from drinks being spilled. Then just how many times have they been opened up or dropped on the floor and the alphabetizing is now out of order?
If I may be so bold, I'd like to suggest your main problem was never with books themselves, but with binders. Separate issues. I myself never used binders or page protectors. never experience spilled pages, and never faced the awful task of swapping new pages for old in any page protectors. There are faster, cheaper, and easier ways to make and maintain physical books without all those drawbacks!


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