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 Post subject: How Big is your ....
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:44 am 
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Okay How Big is your venue?There are many discussions on EQUIPMENT , PRICES , ROTATIONS. UNDERCUTTERS ETC... Many of the KS regulars giving advice from all over the world .... I'm curious on the size of the venues we either HOST a SHOW or as a SINGER participate. I think this might be able to help others understand where some of this great advice is coming from?.....

I host 2 shows per week Thurs & Saturday - 4 years as a KJ
Thursday show is only3 weeks old and for this I'l leave it out but Saturday ....Rotation Size 12-15 people average with an avergage overall room of between 40 -50 people ? 90% Karaoke with 10% dance or filler music . It is a local bar, some TV's, Pool Table etc. I would say listening to most that this is a SMALL venue ......... SO How BIG is your venue? :shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:04 am 
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My 7 night club seats 250 comfortably & has capacity at 300. Average rotation size 15-20 on weeknights, 30-40 on weekends.
My other club seats 125 & capacity at 200. Average rotation size 10-15.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:13 am 
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My smallest is about a 70 seater but with a lot of singers so the rotation is around the 20-25 mark and my largest is a 300 seater with, unbelievably, a similar rotation.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:06 pm 
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My shows have a seating capacity of around 98 with 50-60 partons on a given night. about 75% participation some more than others. in some of the pubs it is back to back Karaoke with 15-20 seconds between singers. (Yes they know their rotation and are waiting) some time I will have 2 or 3 dance tunes in the rotation. But that is because we have a no dead air policy, and if we get a lot of people up dancing, we keep the party going.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:25 pm 
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our brand new gig, I can't comment on it. It's just starting out. Will check back and tell you folks how it is progressing.

As for the one I've had for a while, it's a pretty small bar. About twenty in the general seating area, with room for another twenty or so on the other side. Occasionally I'll have people from "that side" come over. Mostly, when they want to sing and have a good time, they move on over, crowding out everyone.

yet I often have smaller rotations. I've only had one night when it was over twenty people. Usually, it's anywhere from 4 - 14 people!!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:38 pm 
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Since I am brand new at this. I have no rotation in no clubs..:)

But I am booked on Wednesday nights starting in November at a club that seats atound 150 and am negotiating tonight on a bar that hosts about 50-70 on a good night. Unfortunately, she wants to use Karaoke to beef up her low Saturdays and since I have no established following as of yet, she is waffling on price. I started at $150 and then offered $125 a week for the first month. I'll let you know what comes of it.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:42 pm 
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best of luck with it, Riff. Just make sure the owner realises that it takes time to build a show up. Do the cut rate for a month or so and, when it builds, then get your full rate!
:D

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:28 pm 
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Riff,

the trend for clubs nowadays is "bring in a following and I'll meet your price". It's not the same as it was a while ago! Then, you only had to come in and have a fat songbook! LOL!

I would negotiate with the owner a bit... ask what they are going to do to help support your show. Definately take a pay reduction as long as they're going to counter that with advertising, such as newspapers, TV, Radio, or something similar!

Inform them of the investment you're making going into this business, and that you're more than willing to negotiate. But negotiation comes with it's own price.

By the same token, don't be so bull-headed that you end up costing the 'gig' unless it's just not worth having!

Best of luck to you!

Matt


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 5:49 pm 
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Well I just booked that Saturday show for $125 for the first two weeks and then up from there if the crowd starts to develop. WOOHOO!!!! Look out world, here I come! LOL :)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:17 pm 
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CONGRATS!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:22 pm 
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Congrats! Its fine to take a small reduction to get your foot in the door. But as was said up a bit, work with them to get some advertising etc. Also, make sure the reduced rate is only temporary. Don't waffle on that one. As soon as you get it built up a little, make sure they go to your original price. Good luck.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:56 pm 
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My opinion on this topic, (rates) is be willing to negotiate your starting fee, but get a commitment of 6 weeks from the club, to do the reduced price show. (It takes about 6 weeks to build a karaoke customer base) But don't sell yourself short...get a commitment from the owner, that after 6 weeks, if they want to keep you, the rate increases.

Of course, if your show is really successful, you can always negotiate a raise, further down the road.

On the subject of venue size, my small club is about 250, and the large club is 600+.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:52 pm 
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HOLY CRAP!

Either you guys are seriously overstating the size of these venues, or you really ARE being underpaid!

To listen to the way some folks talk around here about the huge money they spend on equipment etc, to be getting $175 in venues this large is silly! How can you afford it? I've got lower end equipment than most folks here, but it does what I need it to do.

Most of my gigs are in places that hold less than 70 people, and I can get $175 a night to play. I guess the number that I have in my head that dictates prices is roughly $2-3 a head.

Clubs that hold between 250 and 600 wouldn't see me for less than 4 bills just for dealing with the hassles that come with crowds of that size. I played one of the downtown hotspots here for $225, and seriously underestimated the headaches, and thus the price. The room was so packed that I could not get out from behind my rig to take photos of singers, much less get something to drink, and I know the venue cleaned up. I was p****d at the end of the night when the bartender counted out more in tips that I got for playing! I won't go back for less than $300, and I'm more than happy to sit down with the club owner and explain why.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:26 am 
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it's VERY competitive here...

And Lonman is running seven nights a week with a permament setup there... I know he's worked out a longstanding arrangement with them.

For a mobile to haul all that stuff up there... yeah, that's too little...

Speaking for myself, I can't get the higher priced gigs here... it's jus too competitive. And what ones have approached me have been nickel and dime things that I'm passing on!

Matt


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:20 pm 
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Friday/Saturday night gig ususally has 30-50 people, rotations from 5 or 6 up to 11 or 12. Play 3 or 4 dance numbers at the end of each round. Less than 6 singers sing 2 songs at a time, more than that we sing only 1. We never have more than one round with 2 songs being sung.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 12:05 pm 
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Most venues I visit have a seating capacity of around 50-60, with a singer rotation of 10-15. I think these places have the most potential for my personal enjoyment - and that's why I go in the first place. i've been to larger clubs, 150-200 people, but they just weren't as much fun and less interaction with other patrons. I think the smaller venues lend themselves to more comraderie among the patrons of the bar.

Much smaller than that and there's usually a space issue.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 6:42 pm 
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I havent done clubs yet.. Just Private Parties..
Of course booked now thru Christmas ever Friday and Sat..

The first of the year I'm gonna look into clubs!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 7:50 am 
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Just because a venue has a large seating capacity, don't confuse it as to how many people attend. All our venues have an average capacity of 200-300+. I only wish it would be filled with alot of patrons but only 12 singers. That way they're up about once an hour. The big problem with big rotations is that singers will tend to go elsewhere to get up more regardless of your selection or sound. Singers are funny that way.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:49 am 
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There's a fine line between enough success and too much. Once the rotations get too long, some patrons lose interest because they don't get up often enough. My Fri gig seats about 45 or so in the dining room, adjacent to the bar. Then the bar seats probably another 25-30 max. There's a larger ballroom in the back, but only used for special events. Last night I had 28 or 29 singers in the first round. Then it grew to about 33 or 34. It's great to have that much support and that many people come out to your show, but on the other hand if it was always like that, you'd lose some of them, who'd go elsewhere to get in more turns. My average rotation is probably more like 16-18. I also do an every-other-Wed at another place where the seating is probably about 75-80, all in one big room where the bar is. It also averages probably 16-18. Think our record there was 31 or 32. So, I've actually had more singers at one time at the smaller place. The other thing is that at both locations there are a number of people that come out every time, order drinks, food, etc. and have a good time listening to others sing, but never sing themselves. These people are just as important as the singers as they're contributing to the profitability. They also put in requests and/or have their favorites, which I try to get in so they'll enjoy it as much as the singers.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:16 pm 
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Amen Ron, well said. Sometimes I think we sometimes forget about those who actually enjoy coming just to listen.


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