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 Post subject: need help with start up
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:15 pm 
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I'm new to karaoke.. and have a low budget. it's mainly for entertainment while in college..
anyway.. i was planning to get a home theater system and add a karaoke mixer with some mics.. i'm not sure how well it would work.. i have my eye on this Onkyo HTS760 at circuit city for $499 but still not sure.. my budget is around $700 .. the reason why i picked the home theater system is that it's convenient for movies.. plus, it's a whole package.

Please let me know what's the best combination out there for about $700
Thank you


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:04 pm 
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no replies.. hrmm.. is it b/c i'm too much of a newbie? small fry budget??
i just want a karaoke system.. been wanting it forever.. o well..
ok, thanks anyway


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 4:24 pm 
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Though home theater sounds dynamic, usually karaoke and home theater are apples and oranges.

Adding a microphone mixer would work great with that DVD player. Get something simple like a Pro II or an Audio 2000. www.audio2000s.com They start around $150.00


Sorry for the late reply, been busy -


Sammy

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:18 pm 
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If I could offer some advise it would be to stay away from circuit city for karaoke. My personal opinion (and that's all it is - I certainly don't mean to bad mouth circuit city or any other retail outlet) is that they cater to impulse buyers and deal with less than quality equipment when it comes to karaoke. They may carry a lot of great values on satellite systems, tv's, etc. but not for karaoke. You'd be better off going to a music store that caters to local bands, dj's, etc. except they are often expensive. If you can't find what you want there, within your budget, maybe search the internet. You might be shocked at what you can get for a home system within a budget of 700.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 11:28 pm 
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700.00 can get you anice triple tray, peavey power amp/delay/eq/ and some mics. have fun homies............dont blow your speakers he he he.


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 Post subject: thanx
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:07 pm 
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thanx guys for the replies..
any good recommendation for more internet sites for products?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:47 am 
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You can use a home theater for karaoke but you do risk blowing up your speakers. It will work, but it won't sound as good and the added risk of hurting your main speakers. You would be better off buying a separate set of speakers to hook up to you recievers auxilery speaker, most receiver still have this option, & bypass your main speakers entirely.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:16 pm 
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karaoke.com
acekaraoke.com

just do a search on the products you're looking for... you'd be amazed at where you find them.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 3:17 am 
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I didn't see the mixers mentioned by Sammy on the Audio2000's website.
I certainly didn't see any prices.
I wouldn't recommend that you use your theater system for karaoke, but, "If you must, you must". I would recommend that you get a reg. player with echo and pitch control. Look at a JVC. Get a Shure mic, (they start around $50), and a short mic cord.
If your TV or home theater system doesn't have a video input, you'll need an RF rectifier, ($30 at Radio Shack), to convert to coaxal cable.
I would recommend that you get a regular PA system and go through it instead of using a home theater system, (HTS).
Go to Carvin.com THEY list prices. The low end systems are mono so look at the amp specs if stereo is important to you. Any system that has a panner is stereo. You can add a PA to your HTS, and even if it's a mono PA you'll get stereo from the HTS. Player inputs into the HTS and the output from the HTS goes to the PA.
If you JUST want to input a mic into your HTS a Signal Flex MM-40, ($35-$40), will do so.
HTS speakers don't like voice. Live analog signals like voice, trumpets, etc. fry tweeters. Keep the vol. and treble turned down.
Too many KJs forget that all you REALLY need is a player, a mic, and a TV.
Of course no one in thier right mind would want THIS for enterainment.
Is $700 is your budget AFTER you buy the HTS or is it your total budget? Is echo and pitch control important to you? Your HTS won't give you these.

Some home systems work fine for karaoke while others do not. Price is not an indicator. I have a set of Sony powered home theater speakers that handle karaoke just fine all by themselves, but my Sony Dolby Pro-logic 5.1 system, (with karaoke funtions like mic input, MPX, and karaoke presets), is a loser. The electronics are just fine, it's the speakers that don't cut it. You could end up with cool speakers, and electronics that suck.

Remeber what KjSammy said about home systems and karaoke?
Remember what Ron said about Circuit City?
I couldn't agree more.
If your going to spend $500 at Circuit City make them set up the system that you're looking at and input a karaoke player and a mic into it and try it out for size. If they tell you that they don't have a karaoke player and mic to do this with, it exemplifies why Ron and I feel the way we do about Circuit City. Don't go into Radio Shack without an escort. The same goes for the Good Guy's. The Guitar Center or Sam Ash would be a better choise for the equipment that they carry, (amps, speakers etc.), but you probably won't find HTS's or karaoke players there, and they're expensive. Check out Best Buy's.
The Nov. 2003 issue of Consumer Reports has an article and ratings for home speakers, and one on receivers, and one one HTS's.

You might even, (heaven forbid), consider an all-in-one "turnkey" system. Click on the links to the differant on line karaoke stores found on the Karaoke Scene home page.

Good Luck!
Kojak


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 Post subject: Thanx a bunch Kojak
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:37 pm 
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that was good info there, thanx!
my budget is 700 total for karaoke equipments/receiver/speakers.
as for the HTS, i'm gonna pass on that.. after reading comments about it, HTS doesn't make sense for karaoke..
i'm considering about a pair of 10" (3-way) speakers, receiver, mixer, and mics. so far, i only know that i'll be getting a SHURE for mics.. the other stuff, i'm still looking, don't really know what's best for the money..

speakers-300
receiver- 200
mics x2- 100
mixer- 100

would that work?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 11:47 pm 
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Karaokekid,
On your last post you didn't mention a karaoke player, or connecting cables.
Go to www.musicianfriend.com
Click on PA under packages on the home page, (found on the left hand side).
Look at the Fender Passport P-250.
250 watt (125X2), mixer/amp with effects.
2 mics.
Speaker wires, and mic cords.
2 speaker cabinets with 4, 6 1/2" speakers in each one.
The speakers snap onto the mixer/amp, covering the controls so that the whole thing can be tossed into the back of a truck or into the trunk of all but the smallest cars, (it'll go into the back of a Geo Metro, but don't count on getting anything into the back of a Honda Del Sol).

The whole system weighs 69 lbs.
Everything, (mixer/amp and speakers), is stand mountable.
I heard one of these systems at an OUTDOOR event. Very impressive!
You can confidently do shows at small to med. sized clubs with a P250.
Price: $600.

I know this sounds too good to be true, but I heard one of these suckers.
Unbelievable!
If you go to musiciansfriend.com and find the P-250s page, it says that the P-250 is 69 lbs, but if you click on the "hands on product review" it says that the P-250 weighs 53 lbs. Who do you believe?
Give me a chance to find out. I'm thinking about buying one of these for myself. I'm tired of needing help loading and unloading my system.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:54 am 
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I'm not sure if I understand if you are looking for karaoke just to play with at home or to actually throw karaoke parties and really rock.

I have my own KJ business, but I also have a downsized version that I have connected to my home theater system at home. Granted, it is not the best system in the world, but it serves its purpose nicely when I have a few people over and we want to noddle with the karaoke withouh me setting up the "REAL" gear.

I've got a player that I bought on ebay for under $100 that will play DVD's, VCD's, and CDG's. When not working as a karaoke machine it serves nicely as the DVD player in my home theater. There are mic inputs on the machine, but they really don't sound all that great, so a simple mixer might be the way to go there. I've just got a little one that I use at home.

The rest is just my HTS. I run bose speakers as my mains, and I also have the surround sound package. I just have to be sure to turn off the small speakers and set my amp on 2 speaker stereo when playing the karaoke or I'd blow out my smaller surround speakers.

Hope this helps.

Big Mike
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I'm not sure if I understand if you are looking for karaoke just to play with at home or to actually throw karaoke parties and really rock.

I have my own KJ business, but I also have a downsized version that I have connected to my home theater system at home. Granted, it is not the best system in the world, but it serves its purpose nicely when I have a few people over and we want to noddle with the karaoke withouh me setting up the "REAL" gear.

I've got a player that I bought on ebay for under $100 that will play DVD's, VCD's, and CDG's. When not working as a karaoke machine it serves nicely as the DVD player in my home theater. There are mic inputs on the machine, but they really don't sound all that great, so a simple mixer might be the way to go there. I've just got a little one that I use at home.

The rest is just my HTS. I run bose speakers as my mains, and I also have the surround sound package. I just have to be sure to turn off the small speakers and set my amp on 2 speaker stereo when playing the karaoke or I'd blow out my smaller surround speakers.

Hope this helps.

Big Mike
bigmikekaraoke.com

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:50 pm 
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the system is just for the apartment (i'm just a college student).. but of course, best for the money would be nice.. even though it's not much money..
found a refurbished Onkyo HT510 receiver at ecost.com for $149/free shipping.. specs look decent 100watt x 6

for peakers .. think i should go local store .. so i can listen and avoid shipping cost..


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:58 am 
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Is this system 100 watts divided up 6 ways or is it 600 watts total power?
I doubt that for $150 you'll get 6, 100 watt amps, even if it is a refurbished unit.
I checked at the Fender site and the P250 weighs 53lbs. It'S the size of a large suitcase, and kicks ###.

Quit thinking about home audio carp!

Ya wanna buy a horse?

There's more to an amp than just watts. Alot more.
Mike is taking for granted the fact that you don't know anything about speaker impedances, or amp impedance ratings. Things that pros know and you don't. Frequency responces, dampening power, slew rate, oh my!
Distortion? I'm sure you know, that it's a bad thing, but what does the number mean?

You could go cheaper with the 150 watt P-150 for $425, but you won't be getting a very good deal.

You should be able to guess that 250 watts is bigger than 150 watts, but do you have any idea how much bigger it is in the real world? I think not.
Maybe you shouldn't be thinking about watts. Maybe you should be looking at the speakers. What do you know about speakers?
You can go to the store and buy speakers, but how do you think they'll sound when you connect them up to your Ondonkyo receiver?

Don't buy carp!

Don't put the wheels from a shopping cart, and the handle bars from a bicycle, and an engine from a lawn mower, onto a frame from a Harley.
Mike may be able to slap a system together from pieces, but if you try it, you'll lose and I really wouldn't like to see that.

So you're going to be a freshman?
Your little receiver with a karaoke player isn't going to impress anyone.
Pay the price and get something worthwhile that will make you envy of the everyone on campus. You HAVE heard of Fender haven't you?

I would wish you good luck, but luck is for the unprepared.
I'll wish you well instead.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 8:34 am 
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So Karaokekid, did you ever try the Yorkville NX520's? If you did, what did you think of them?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:27 pm 
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have not tried the yorkville's.. i'm a perfect newbie..
I'm still considering the onkyo receiver.. ONKYO's are not so bad..
and we're just talking about an apartment.. i'm not doing shows (god forbid, with my voice).. but i do love singing.. i've looked over those karaoke on wheels systems.. don't think they're for me.. aside from performance.. something nice to the eyes would be good.. plus, i might add some home theater speakers separate for movies at home.. so the surround sound receiver is convenient.. regular price for the ONKYO HT510 is around 300 .. this one refurbished by manufacturer for half price.. i am weary for refurbished products though.. haven't really bought anything refurbished before, especially online refurbished.. but my buddy bought an ONKYO receiver from the same place.. gonna wait for him to test it out to see the statistics on an online refurbished product.. which doesn't really say anything for the one i want.. but it would offer some relief if it works fine..
well, i'm still opened to many many suggestions.. not rich, so gotta watch that wallet..
keep the comments coming, and thanks again all you out there..


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:16 am 
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Kid,
First you should know that dynamic analog sound like voice, trumpants, sirens, etc. are extreamly hard on tweeters. Stay away speakers with polymer laminate domed tweeters. Solid titanium domed tweeters is your first and titanium laminates are your second choice.

Consumer Reports rated 17 recievers. All went down to 6 ohms but only 3 were rated for use with 4 ohm speakers. In thier 2003 buying guide 14 recievers were rated and only 2 were rated for use with 4 ohm speakers.
Speakers that don't have enough impedance can make your amp get hot and fail.

The impedances of home audio speakers is very poorly reported by thier mfrs. This is because of differant testing methods, typos, rounding off, temp at the time of testing, nonpowered testing, etc.

Out of 32 speakers that were tested only 1, 8 ohm sperker tested at 8 ohms. Two tested at 9 ohms. 14 tested at the 4 ohms that only 3 recievers were rated for.

If you want a cheap but decent reciever look at the Teac AG780 for $130. This reciever has a loudness button.
When you play music at or below conversational levels, you lose your ability to hear bass. The loudness button turns on a filter that filters out some of the highs, making the bass stand out. At higher levels you must turn this off or you will lose dynamics and your sound will be thin and tinny.

The mic inputs on karaoke players are a joke. You won't be able to turn the mics up louder that the music. This will be very pronounced at low volumes. To get the mic volumes up as loud or louder than the music levels you must use a mixer. You must use a mixer if you want tone control for either the mics or the music. An amps tone controls work for everything all together. If you don't have an effects mixer or a sound processor you will lose the echo when you plug your mic into the mixer.

If you connect speakers to an over powered home audio amp, (reciever), you can overdrive the speakers, and tear the cones. If you connect your speakers to a weak home audio amp, the amp can fail to make a compleated wave and "clip" the top off of it. This clip will send straight DC to the speakers making the tweeters fry.

The P-250 may be a little shy on the bass side, (especialy if you like rock), but you can take care of this with a subwoofer.
No system will be perfect for all applications.

Whatever your decision you make I hope that it is approprate for you and that you get all of the "Bang-for-the-buck" that you can.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:47 pm 
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I thought I would share this to you karaokekid:

I bought a Mackie DFX12 Mixer ($239.99 @ Guitar Center) and connect it to my SONY HT receiver. I use a APEX DVD/VCD/MP3 player which I got from (YES!) circuit city for $89.00 and connect the audio cables L/R to the mixer while the video to the receiver (straight to the TV should work). Got my Audio Technika wireless mic from Rat Shack for $99.00 and connect it to the mixer.

My total cost except the HT system: $427.99. I have a enough money left to buy my VCD Karaoke cds. The sound is acceptable and I had a lot of friends coming to my house having fun.

Since I want to bring the show to a larger audience (office party, church fund raising, etc.), I thought of upgrading and got these:

Mackie SRM450 powered speakers
dbx 266xl compressor
BBE 362 Maximizer/Enhancer
Shure The Vocal Artist Wireless Mic
Furman PL8 Power Conditioner
Cables, Rack, etc.
On my wish list: good karaoke player that plays diff. format, tv stand, wireless video adaptor, etc.
Total Cost: $2,289.94 and more if I purchase all things in my wish list.

Karaokekid, you're fine now but don't be satisfied with home theatre system.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:48 pm 
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I thought I would share this to you karaokekid:

I bought a Mackie DFX12 Mixer ($239.99 @ Guitar Center) and connect it to my SONY HT receiver. I use a APEX DVD/VCD/MP3 player which I got from (YES!) circuit city for $89.00 and connect the audio cables L/R to the mixer while the video to the receiver (straight to the TV should work). Got my Audio Technika wireless mic from Rat Shack for $99.00 and connect it to the mixer.

My total cost except the HT system: $427.99. I have a enough money left to buy my VCD Karaoke cds. The sound is acceptable and I had a lot of friends coming to my house having fun.

Since I want to bring the show to a larger audience (office party, church fund raising, etc.), I thought of upgrading and got these:

Mackie SRM450 powered speakers
dbx 266xl compressor
BBE 362 Maximizer/Enhancer
Shure The Vocal Artist Wireless Mic
Furman PL8 Power Conditioner
Cables, Rack, etc.
On my wish list: good karaoke player that plays diff. format, tv stand, wireless video adaptor, etc.
Total Cost: $2,289.94 and more if I purchase all things in my wish list.

Karaokekid, you're fine now but don't be satisfied with home theatre system.


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