Karaoke Forums

I thought I'd throw into this discussion..  

I'm probably standing alone on this, but I think there should be an option to receive critiques but not a rank.  I personally hate the ranking system and find it to be unhelpful for a number of reasons.  Say you have 15 comments on a sub that's up for critique...you have no way of knowing how many people ranked.  It could be as little as three.  I probably only use the rank option on someone else's subs 10% of the time.  There's probably also a herd mentality that goes along with ranking...it wouldn't surprise me if people look to see what the current rank on a sub is and adjust what they think they should give when they push that button accordingly.  I'm not really interested in receiving a rank...I would be more likely to use the critique option sometimes if people could just feel free to give me some thoughtful and truthful feedback.  I think the tendency (at least for me) would be to focus on the rank received if it was below my expectations when the more important information, the actual feedback, is probably more helpful.  Another thought is that I'm not sure what criterion each individual is using for making a ranking judgment.  I know it's supposed to be based on the descriptions with the numbers in the drop-down box, but it can be totally relative....for instance, comparing the subbed song to the original when the person subbing may want to make it their own.  Another problem is that some people would be willing to offer some sort of critique of a song, but because they like the person they might not want to rank them too low.  Having a "no rank" option eliminates that problem but still allows the subber to be critiqued.

I also had to mention that I hate the idea of not being able to edit comments.  I'm kind of scatter brained sometimes and will forget to mention something I wanted to say. I'd hate to think I have to fully scrutinize every single comment I make, and I think anyone who know me knows I make my fair share of them.

[font=Comic Sans MS][/font]Hello All,
           First I have to say on a totally unrelated issue, this is the first time I have ever been on a forum thread without being summoned by friends to come and defend myself from a personal attack.  I love what you have done with the place.  The atmosphere is warm and non accusatory.  This is very nice.

           I think personally, comments good, bad or ugly have to be seen. However, I think this saying one thing until one is sure the recipient has seen and sometimes replied to it, then not only editting but, completely rewriting a comment is ridiculous. I have seen this happen making the recipient look like they were totally insane before, for responding as they have. One day in particular I watched as one individual not only editted but, completely re-wrote their comment 6 times in ten minutes.

            Make sure you are saying what you want to say before hitting that submit button, the world is watching is how it should be. Take away the edit option and make people responsible for their attacks. Thats the first thing that should be done. Please consider adding that as an option.  

             I think if some people were held accountable for their orignal comment instead of letting them escape by "EDIT", after having a sudden attack of political correctness and/or considering their sparkling image amongst peers, things would improve. Most members miss the games being played as they understandably have other responsibilities. I have had a few opportunities to watch them and on one or two occasions been the recipient of such comments.  

            I am glad I came to look for another thread and happened onto this one. Thank you Luly for giving us this voice.  I appreciate it.
                                                                                          XX, Pam

I think that would be awesome:) There have been a few people I'd gladly have blocked, not for bad comments... just because their mere presence irritated me to no end:)

I, of course, voted for the option to view comments and approve them before letting them be publicly viewed...... cause that's what I was talking about in the other thread, much the way it's done on MySpace.

I do not think, as some people are saying, that it will make people block each & every real critique comment. I think it just might open up the place for a bit more honesty.... and come on, people are into numbers. (the higher the better) Rank numbers AND total number of comments... if they get 20 comments, 10 fluff... 10 real critiques... they are NOT gonna delete all the real critiques and have only "10 listens" left on their song.  

Good poll g/f..... I was happy to see this. Maybe, perhaps, P.hill may let us try it. Not that it will make a big difference to me, since I'm a JFF gal... except that it will be nice if I don't see various friends cutting each others' throats daily:)

It will make me feel a bit more free to critique what my little uneducated ears CAN hear wrong on subs... without feeling like I'm gonna publicly hurt someone's feelers or make them mad.  (or... get the high and mighties saying I'm not "qualified" to give such critiques)

.

_________________
♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

I forgot to mention (see..I AM scatter brained sometimes) that having a "no rank, critique only" option eliminates the rank bomb weapon option that's sometimes used against a member for personal reasons.

I'm seeing a lot of great ideas from everybody!  There's so many other poll topics I'd like to see the results of around here, but I hesitate to get all poll crazy!  LIke, do we even want any kind of a numerical ranking system to continue?  How many people really value their rank numbers?

Somehow we need to go through all the ideas that are being proposed in these two threads and get them organized for further review by Admin.  Bottom line, I'd like to see some solid proposals for admin to consider that are agreed upon by a majority of people around here.  It'd be good to finally see some action taken and changes made IMO.

Oh yeah, Cindy and Luly in '08!  :)

I should point this out too. SOme people don't know that when they submit for a numerical rank, that automatically puts them in the "Critique" catagory. I had that problem when I first got here.

There is at least one person who sees this as an excuse to abuse the comment box. I am thinking of this as an example, it might be happening a lot more often for all I know. I couldn't tell you the names because I don't remember their names.

How about.....you must have at least one song subbed, before you can comment on someone's elses sub.....this aint no shooting gallery........if you want to play....you must anti up some chips.......it's like playing offense, but not having to play defense.......it's just not fair......how bout dos bears.....lmao.......jj

I'm totally with you on that, Odie.  Neither inaction or totally arbitrary decisions seem acceptable to me...member input via voting should rule the day and like you said, all suggestions should be organized and carefully considered.

Yep, more great ideas and observations there Chuck, Johnny and Debbie!  I agree!

Redhead1 my dear friend.....I understand your point, but I for one am one who DOES NOT AND NEVER WILL EVER IN A LIFE TIME NEED A CRITIQUE!!!  BUT!!! .....I DO LIKE THE RANKING SYSTEM!!!!!!


Yes...I like the ranking system!!!!!!! .....So where as you would like to get rid of it and have CRITIQUE ONLY......I WOULD LIKE TO GET RID OF THE CRITIQUE AND KEEP THE RANKING PART!!!!!!!  :yes:


But none of either will ever work because of the Jealous people here who cant stand for someone else to get more attention than themselves!!!!!!

People here are like little children who fight over Candy......They say things like I cant believe that so and so got more comments or a higher ranking than me!!


It so rediculous the way people are about this crap!!!   There are people here who sing like pros....there people here who cant sing to save there life and then there are people who will go so far that they will post an original artist song and try to pass it off as themself singing.

Cheap people who refuse to pay a vocal coach to get real vocal training expect someone to come here and take the time to give them a critique and help them improve.   I for one can be honest!!!! But most people cannot take it!!!!

For someone to expect me to come here and give vocal lessons when I am here to have fun would be like me asking you to do your job while you are on vacation trying to have fun.

What if every time you tried to take a vacation to have fun with family and friends some idiot came along wanting you to work for free on your vacation time!!!  How is that fair to someone who comes here as if it is a fun vacation...a place to get away from real world problems and crap!!!  Its karaoke!!! its a place where we can come to post our recordings of ourself singing a karaoke song!!!!


But people like me can't come here to have fun because all the big kids are fighting over who gets the most attention or who gets the most comments or who gets the most help on how to improve!!!!

My God I wish people would stop trying to get vocal lessons for free right here on this site!!!   If people really want that bad enough and if there is someone here who is qualified to do so then do it in private!!!!!!  or start another forum just for vocal lessons.....where any body in the world can try to be your vocal coach and tell you whatever it is that you want to hear!!!


That would be like someone trying to teach me how to do something when they themself don't even know how!!! and thats just plain stupid!!!

The blind leading the blind!!!!

There are people here who if they had the money to pay a real vocal coach it would not do them any good...they would be wasting there money because no help in the world can help them improve because there is nothing there to improve to start with!!!!

I watched the opening season of American Idol and there are people who try out for American Idol who cannot sing period!!!! but you cannot tell them that because they are so tone deaf they cannot hear where they are off pitch.

People like that cannot be helped no matter how much money you have to pay for vocal lessons!!!!!   And here we have people who want vocal lessons for free and want it by people who are not qualified to even give vocal training.

I come here for fun..I dont come here to waste my time trying help people who cannot be helped....nor to give help to those who can be helped!!!

I come here for Fun!!!!!!! Fun fun fun!!!!! That is all!!!!!!

There are people here who cannot stand those who come here for fun...They want it to be serious!!!!!!  serious what???? serious karaoke????

If nothing changes I will sub under L only because I dont want some lame remark from some Jealous idiot....and Im not going to allow Rank either because the Jealous little kiddies will come to rank in a revengeful type mannor.

Then you have those who think they know what a 10 is and what it is not and they alone cannot stand to see anyone no matter how talented get a 10.  Then there are those who get 10's all the time who couldn't get a recording contract because they cannot stay on pitch or even with the melody of the song.

YOU WANT HONEST CRITIQUE?????  If I did take the time to actually do this myself which I will not!!!  But if I did I would make almost everyone here angry because I have the ability to tell you the truth concerning your vocal talent or lack there of.

But do I want to come here to make enemies and upset people and make people angry and have hurt feelings.....and on top of that do it for FREEEEE!!!!!!!

NO!!!!!! I DONT!!!!!!


 LMAO  LMAO  LMAO

Oh... you wont RANK me any more...... I thought you had said you wouldn't SPANK me any more. Much better. Rankings can go. I need my daily spankings though.

What a dork I am, I gotta go to work:)  LOL

.

_________________
♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

 Hi Pam .... and Red!!!

I totally hear both of you ......

Regarding The ranking:  I personally think its a total waste of time .. and not at all valid or NECESSARY for a site like this.  This is not a "competition" site.  It's a share site.  The numbers make people vicious ..... and competitive .... and unfortunately, some even resort to sabotage.... which inevitably leads to hurt feelings, arguments and all out war, or so it appears.   I've seen it happen elsewhere as well .... and its ugly.  

As for the comments in the "critque" category.  Pam says she thinks they all need to be seen .... good, bad and ugly.  I can't agree with that.  I DO agree that if someone subs in that category then they are subject to some critism .. as the word critique means... to scrutinize, and I have yet to hear a totally perfect submission from anyone (heck, most of the pros aren't even perfect  :). )  However, while subbing in this category means you should expect to receive both good and constructive suggestions for improvement..... it does NOT mean you should have to read comments that are BAD or UGLY, nor does it mean "you asked for it" by subbing in that category.  Unfortunately .... that IS what has been happening.  
Being able to "approve" a comment ..... eliminates this kind of public humiliation.  Lets hope that those that are asking for critque KNOW that they will likely hear some CONSTRUCTIVE ideas for change...... and will ACCEPT comments such as those, openly.  If they don't ... then eventually, no one will offer them critique anyway ... so they will be hurting themselves, if all they will APPROVE is the wonderful stuff.


A related question ....

HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY FEEL THE RANK (NUMBER YOU RECEIVE) IS IMPORTANT OR NECESSARY AND TRULY VALUE IT?  

As for being able to edit a comment.  I am the EDIT queen .. .  I HATE to see errors in my postings ..... and I too sometimes forget to say something I want to say.  HOWEVER... as we all know ..... all it takes is one or two to abuse something.... to make it a BAD FEATURE .... even if everyone else uses it correctly.  Unfortunately, as Pam has pointed out ... this is occuring ... and the end result is a LOT of hard feelings, hurt feelings and frustration (which then becomes very ugly).  As hard as it will be for ME ... I will learn to live with the mistakes I make typing or my own forgetfulness ... and give up my "editing" ... to see the ABUSE of editing STOP.

Its great to see so many people commenting and offering suggestions, too!  As Odie says.... what we need to get all of these ideas into some kind of "order" and try to state them clearly and accurately to ADMIN.  I'd be able to work with Odie, or Luly or whomever ... if you think I could be of any help.  Let me know.  

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY FEEL THE RANK (NUMBER YOU RECEIVE) IS IMPORTANT OR NECESSARY AND TRULY VALUE IT?  

I guess I am the only one who likes it.  The only problem with it is:

(1)People abuse it because they get mad if you get ranked higher than them, so they come to your sub and give you a 2 to knock your ranking down to there level or below.

(2) People get upset that they are not talented enough to ever get a 10!!

(3) Some people think a perfect performance does not deserve a 10.

(4) some people don't know what a perfect performance is!!!!

So the ranking system will never work even though I like having it.  It will never work because of the things mentioned above.....like people fighting because they are jealous and rank out of revenge.,,,because they cannot accept that someone else sings better than them or that somone else get more attention than them...


As for me I don't need the Critique part!!!!!  I don't want anyone telling me where I went wrong on a song....I can hear where I am off!!!!  I don't need help from anyone with my singing!!!!!!

So now the only choice I have is to sub under L to stop someone from making a remark that I don't care to see.

I cannot have my songs up for rank because then some idiot will try to give me a Critique that I don't need....I just want the song ranked!!!!

I still agree with most of the things I'm reading here!  And yes, I think we can form an unbiased committee that could go over everything at a later date.  Of course we  haven't heard whether Admin would even be interested in our opinions.  But what the heck, it'd be worth a shot and at least we could say we seriously tried to make it happen!  :yes:

Your point totally taken, Neo, about this being a place to enjoy without the pressure of having to give out critiques and make enemies.  I definitely agree that nobody should have to critique anyone...I hardly ever do.  Most of us have lives and a true critique would take time to do correctly by those who know something about it.  Kappy takes notes and probably listens to the song more than once when giving private critiques.   Even for those who occasionally give public critiques, I notice they don't do it on every sub.  To me, it's an alternative to receiving fluff for each submission.  I probably would only ask for a critique on some new genre I was trying out or on a song that I felt I did my best on.  Nothing wrong with getting a second or third ear.  Most of the time on mine, I can already hear what sounds bad.  Some of us may have some kind of bad habit that detracts when we sing that could be corrected if pointed out.  A "critique only" option allow for it to be brought to light without having to be ranked.

Like you mentioned, I know most people can't take a real critique based on the many of the responses I've witnessed...they should be subbing in JFF.  If they chose to sub "C" then let the chips fall where they may.  I will qualify by saying that anyone giving a critique should be honest, but not brutal....most people don't take well to public humiliation.  

I know your feelings about this being just a karaoke site, but some people, like me, are always looking to improve...can't see anything wrong with that and if someone enjoys and is qualified to critique, why not allow them to have their fun, too!  And yes, I've paid for vocal lessons so I'm not too cheap.  

I think you're a riot, btw!!!  LOL  :hug:

I like Kappy's idea of having a seperate page for trhose of us who want people to teach us our craft for free.

To me this is just a place where I can get some realities, somtimes harsh explained to me about my singing by people who I share interest with. If it gets too harsh in the newer page I can always remove my subs. Maybe even make it a pay page where you have to be a paying member to sub there.

Just some thoughts.

I don't presume to know how much work this will be for admin. They may be really hating me right now. If that's the case I apologize but I believe these things need to be discussed by us so that we can at least come to some agreement of how to go on. I see that this subject has been beaten to death in the past and may never have an end to it. Maybe we can actually think of something that will help.

Thanks Redhead1  I think your Great my friend!!  :D

I see your point too, I really do....and I know your not cheap!!

And Chuck...what the heck is your problem???  As Great of a singer as you are and you talk like your not good Dang!!! Chuck your better than me by a long shot my friend!!!!!!

Now your making me feel bad about my singing

Lord have mercy Chuck....If I could sing as good as you I would be making money!!

Chuck if you think you need help then..OMG!!!! I need help real bad!!!!!!

Ok....or okay...uh?? hummmm....

That means my singing really sux...So I need to stop posting???  :headscratch:




Dang!!! Here I was thinking I could sing!!  

OH Nooooo...That means Im as bad as some of them people who try out for American Idol and I don't know it or cannot hear it!!!!!  :bawling:


Dang!!! what do I do now?? Im devastated or whatever ya call it

What do I do Now????  :drunk:


Well I guess I learned something after all!!!  :yes:

Thanks Neo. I have a problem with always wanting to improve on things. In singing, while I really only sing for fun, I still have this illness that makes me want to learn what else I can do better. Maybe I'm a masochist. <i think i am>

Thank you Pam, Debbie and Charmin for joining in the group and casting your votes.  Well, with all the pros and cons being presented, it looks like so far the all 3 features option is at over 50%.  I'm going to end the poll a week from today so that it doesn't drag on.  I will then have it moved over to to the admin section so they can take a gander and see what they think and what can be done.  I hope that those who have made their views known at other threads will come over here and vote, and that we get as many members as possible involved.

Thank you all for participating.  :D

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Odie stated :


Because they are probably NOT !! Face it if they were "really" interested in keeping people at peace they would have been here already..this has been goin on for months & months ! All I see is people (if the shoe fits wear it dang it ! ) getting preferential treatment b/c they have the whiniest mouths...It SHOULD matter to them that they are losing "paying" members because of this. HOW STOOPID is THAT !! We own our own business...EVERY $ we make is important to us. This site was meant for FUN !! Why the rank & critique ??? This IS NOT nor WILL IT EVER BE a PRO site !! I can tell you pros dont sit around singing KARAOKE ( for rank or critique, maybe for FUN !! ) ...They actually write their songs put them to music "compose" (THIS is the ONLY place I'd ask for a critique or rank here at this sit )( on pourpose anyways , I've apparently hit "c" by accident before)  ...Does ANYONE here NOT see the difference between the two ???

But I did vote for all three options. Whatever good THAT did !!

Im sorry if I seem negative here...recent events ( some of you know some of them & some are behind the scenes ) promted this reply.

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Kelley
Star Sounds Karaoke & Mobile Recording Studio


[shadow=black][scroll]You have to respect your audience. Without them, you're essentially standing alone, singing to yourself....KD Lang[/scroll][/shadow]