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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 7:22 pm 
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zeke wrote:
Sorry, I'm skeptical of Utopian money distribution schemes that sound too good to be true. It certainly sounds nice. I love Star Trek! However, I've heard communism is a pretty great system in theory too but it seems to run into a few snags when it actually gets implemented. It sure sounds nice on paper though.


Actually Communism was supposed to be the transition stage to pure Socialism and we all know how well that worked.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 1:44 am 
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KarenB wrote:
zeke wrote:
Sorry, I'm skeptical of Utopian money distribution schemes that sound too good to be true. It certainly sounds nice. I love Star Trek! However, I've heard communism is a pretty great system in theory too but it seems to run into a few snags when it actually gets implemented. It sure sounds nice on paper though.


Actually Communism was supposed to be the transition stage to pure Socialism and we all know how well that worked.

backwards.
socialism was seen by Marx as the first necessary step to communism.
so far, even in the USSR, there has yet to be a purely communist state since none of them have achieved the elimination of personal property, money or class systems that the communist ideology requires.
even pure socialism has not been achieved anywhere, Even countries considered by people to be socialist states, like Norway, Sweden and Denmark, have successful capitalist sectors and follow policies that are largely aligned with democratic socialism.

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 3:45 am 
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:!: One thing everyone should keep in mind UBI as it was originally conceived came from conservative think tanks. It was supposed to empower people by bypassing the government bureaucratic red tape, and paying citizens directly. They could then determine how the money was to be spent, to help their individual situations, not a one size fits all solution. Also it was designed to stop the recurring cycles of boom and bust that are part of the capitalist system, making sure all citizens can participate in the economy, without the danger of falling below a financial floor into poverty, and homelessness. It is not Socialism since it is paid for by everyone to benefit everyone, and society as a whole. It may be the only practical solution if the problems caused by the virus become long term, and government payments are needed beyond the current stimulus and unemployment payments time lines. Other wise we will be piling up deficits for as far as the eye can see.


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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 3:48 am 
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:!: For those hosts that were expecting maybe a second stimulus check to help you survive until venues are open again, needing karaoke, you might have to wait a while. The House passed a second round of direct payments to individuals, but the Senate is dragging it's feet, and the new relief bill will not see the light of day until June or later. The longer it takes to pump money to consumers, the longer it will take to bring back the economy, if it can be brought back?


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 4:55 am 
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:?: I guess Moscow Mitch is starting to see the light, he is now warming to the idea of yet another massive stimulus package. So far the previous packages have not provided the amount of help needed to jump start the economy. Congress cannot wait too long, or if there is another round of pandemic in the Fall and Winter, just at election time, you can bet the party in power will be blamed. Everything is pointing to a rout for the right come the Fall. The next administration will be facing a bleak future for this country, unless of course massive government programs are enacted. The two that must be looked at are UBI and infrastructure spending, since one would insure consumers would be able to continue supporting our economy, while not falling below the poverty line, into eventual homeless status. The other would put people back to work rebuilding our country's crumbling infrastructure, providing jobs for millions, and pumping back into the economy trillions in GDP growth. Truly growing our way out of government debt, not more failed trickle down economics, which have proven to fail time and time again.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:46 am 
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:!: We have about 60 days before the current stimulus money in the form of expanded unemployment benefits runs out on July 31st. The riots we are watching now are just a small taste of what is to come, if we don't address securing the extended financial support millions of workers are going to need during the pandemic. Once you have millions of unemployed former workers, out of a job and no money coming in to help them survive, you are going to see more of the looting and lawless behavior. Already there are civil protests and rioting in all 50 states. We have two choices we can send in troops and hope they can restore law and order, or we can address the problems confronting our least advantaged citizens. One huge problem is making sure everyone has an economic floor they can't fall beneath. The time has come for UBI, and other reforms, so that all can prosper once we adjust to the new abnormal.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:47 pm 
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:!: This is true Danny the American Standard of Living, was the highest during the presidency of Dwight David Eisenhower in the 1950's. It was at that point America was closer to being a Socialist nation than any other time in it's history. The effective tax rate on the 1% was over 90%, and they still could afford fancy cars, and homes. They just didn't have the money to try and buy our reps., then Congress worked to try and achieve a consensus, rather than be polarized. We still had enough people who had lived through WWII alive to remember what pulling together means, and we built the national highway system, which we can't even keep in repair today.

This is a myth spread frequently by leftists to sell socialism as some economic utopia that it never was. The number is much more nuanced and comparable to today's tax rates when you evaluate the data:
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...between 1950 and 1959, the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid an average of 42.0 percent of their income in federal, state, and local taxes. Since then, the average effective tax rate of the top 1 percent has declined slightly overall. In 2014, the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid an average tax rate of 36.4 percent.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:14 pm 
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zeke wrote:
This is a myth spread frequently by leftists to sell socialism as some economic utopia that it never was. The number is much more nuanced and comparable to today's tax rates when you evaluate the data:
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...between 1950 and 1959, the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid an average of 42.0 percent of their income in federal, state, and local taxes. Since then, the average effective tax rate of the top 1 percent has declined slightly overall. In 2014, the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid an average tax rate of 36.4 percent.



:!: No myth zeke the top rate was 91% paid by anyone making over 400,000.00 a year, in those days the was equal to 4 million today. There were, however, write offs and deductions the rich used to lessen their tax burden. It was a graduated system just like today and the 91% only kicked in after the first 400,000. PBS has compiled a list of "The Seven Biggest Economic Lies/Need To Know/PBS. http://www.pbs.org/wnet-to-know/opinion ... ies/12007/


Among other lies it talks about is the trickle down economic theory of supply side economist Arthur Laffer, which everybody knows is baloney. Oh by the way what is your plan when the stimulus checks and unemployment runs out? How are millions and millions of unemployed workers going to pay their rent and buy food for their families. Do you really think they are simply going to starve to death, while others live in their big houses, and continue to eat their fine dinners? The recent riots show quite clearly we are sitting on a ticking time bomb, sure you can use the 1807 Insurrection Act powers of the president to call out the Army, but will the soldiers shoot on civilians stealing food that is the question?

P.S. zeke are you telling me that you could not live well on 4 million dollars a year? Does anybody really need more than that, when you have vast numbers of people living paycheck to paycheck? Or is it you don't feel wealthy individuals don't need to pay their fair share, so that all can benefit from living in the richest country in history? Like has been pointed out several times the standard of per capita living was the highest in the 1950's.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:16 am 
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If the tax rate in the 1950s was "91%" for the rich, but they didn't actually pay that rate, the success of that time period is not really an argument for raising the tax rate back to 91% unless the same situation exists where people won't actually be paying 91%. But people who make the "the tax rate used to be 91%" argument, like you did, never mention that people didn't actually pay that rate, so it is completely deceptive.

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Oh by the way what is your plan when the stimulus checks and unemployment runs out? How are millions and millions of unemployed workers going to pay their rent and buy food for their families. Do you really think they are simply going to starve to death, while others live in their big houses, and continue to eat their fine dinners

Aren't you the one advocating for a continued, government ordered lock-down of huge portions of the economy? I'm not. Let people work, let businesses reopen. Printing trillions of dollars for months/years so people can sit in their house until a vaccine is hopefully developed seems like a very risky experiment to be trying on the entire U.S. economy.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:51 am 
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zeke wrote:
If the tax rate in the 1950s was "91%" for the rich, but they didn't actually pay that rate, the success of that time period is not really an argument for raising the tax rate back to 91% unless the same situation exists where people won't actually be paying 91%. But people who make the "the tax rate used to be 91%" argument, like you did, never mention that people didn't actually pay that rate, so it is completely deceptive.


Aren't you the one advocating for a continued, government ordered lock-down of huge portions of the economy? I'm not. Let people work, let businesses reopen. Printing trillions of dollars for months/years so people can sit in their house until a vaccine is hopefully developed seems like a very risky experiment to be trying on the entire U.S. economy.



:!: Ok so we take the old example get rid of the loopholes, and charge all income over 400,000 a year at the 91% rate, no problem. Then people could still live and others would be taken care of.

What I'm advocating is reopening in a smart responsible way, not recklessly. The economy can be reopened if everyone takes responsibility, and not Wild West about it. There might be no other choice Zeke, than to develop new ways of dealing, with the new reality we might be facing for the next several years.

As far as UBI is concerned only the first Trillion or so dollars would have to be printed, after the first year it would be self funding, if we use Andrew Yang's model, there are other high tech billionaires that are advocating the same thing. Also the One Trillion dollars start up money would result in a Three Trillion Dollar growth in GDP. What we are doing now with this stimulus farce is adding to the future debt with no end in sight. Like it or not millions of workers will be out of work for some time, the companies and mom and pop business's they once worked for are gone and aren't coming back, no matter how much money is thrown at the problem.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:51 pm 
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Ok so we take the old example get rid of the loopholes, and charge all income over 400,000 a year at the 91% rate, no problem. Then people could still live and others would be taken care of.

Based upon the information I provided above, a 91% effective tax rate has never been tried in this country. We have never even surpassed 50%. So you can certainly argue for it and say that it will lead to a socialist utopia, and others might argue it would completely tank the economy.

What you cannot honestly say is that a 91% tax rate was tried in the 1950's and was wildly successful. It was effectively much, much lower than that. Write-offs and tax sheltering mechanisms are written into the laws on purpose, and rich people hire accountants who know how to legally take full advantage of these laws. My problem is the deceptiveness of the argument about the "91% tax rate" of that era. Rich people simply didn't pay 91% of their income to taxes in the 1950s.

By the way, if I was rich and you tried to take 91% of my income, I would be looking for another country with more reasonable tax laws. Rich people have options.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:25 pm 
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zeke wrote:

By the way, if I was rich and you tried to take 91% of my income, I would be looking for another country with more reasonable tax laws. Rich people have options.



:!: Only 91% after the first $400,000.00, you and I would never have to worry about hitting that, would we? Oh and if you really want to leave go right ahead. Most Western Democracies tax at a higher tax rate than that, just ask the Beatles.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:55 am 
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zeke wrote:
By the way, if I was rich and you tried to take 91% of my income, I would be looking for another country with more reasonable tax laws. Rich people have options.

#1) it is not flat, it is marginal. that means that the top tax rate does not affect anything under $400,000 per year.
#2) the richest people in the world... Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, among others have been saying for years, that they SHOULD be taxed more.
#3) the only people crying about the poor rich people are the people who will never make enough to hit that tax rate anyway.
#4) remember...we are talking about people who make more in a year than most of us spent on our homes...and even THY say they should be taxed higher
#5) the most prosperous time in America was when the super filthy rich were taxes at a higher rate than now. this is not speculation, this is absolute black and white fact. if making America prospersous like it was is important, we need to do what we did before that worked. the "trickle down economics" plan of taxing the rich less has failed 100% of the time. again, this is not speculation, but proven fact.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:50 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
zeke wrote:
By the way, if I was rich and you tried to take 91% of my income, I would be looking for another country with more reasonable tax laws. Rich people have options.

#1) it is not flat, it is marginal. that means that the top tax rate does not affect anything under $400,000 per year.
#2) the richest people in the world... Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, among others have been saying for years, that they SHOULD be taxed more.
#3) the only people crying about the poor rich people are the people who will never make enough to hit that tax rate anyway.
#4) remember...we are talking about people who make more in a year than most of us spent on our homes...and even THY say they should be taxed higher
#5) the most prosperous time in America was when the super filthy rich were taxes at a higher rate than now. this is not speculation, this is absolute black and white fact. if making America prospersous like it was is important, we need to do what we did before that worked. the "trickle down economics" plan of taxing the rich less has failed 100% of the time. again, this is not speculation, but proven fact.



:!: As usual Paradigm you really hit the nail on the head about our existing unfettered capitalistic system, of winners and losers, with boom and bust cycles that go along with it. Prior to the pandemic many studies have indicated that in the next 15 years AI aka artifical intelligence will replace 47% of the jobs currently done by human workers. Of course with all of the economic disruption this time line will only be accelerated. When there are 47% fewer jobs we are going to have to go to UBI, since the population isn't declining and we cannot allow nearly half the population to sink into poverty. Building a strong economic floor is the only answer, trickle down hasn't and won't work, only makes the rich richer, and the rest of us poorer. The idea of UBI is not new it was originally first conceived by Thomas More back in the time of Henry VIII.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:13 am 
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:!: Just learned today that Treasury Secretary Steve Munchin is going back on his promise to have complete transparency, as far as who got the stimulus money that should have gone to small business's. There is some concern that members of Congress and the administration, or their relatives got the money, not on merit but because they were connected. Much fuss is being made about the 500 billion dollars of tax payer money, and the lack of accountability, that was supposed to be clear along with the distribution of the funds. What nobody is talking about is the 4 Trillion dollars the FED has pumped into the markets to help Wall Street, at the expense of Main Street. The FED just prints this money, it is not voted on by our reps, it is a taxpayer responsibility, there doesn't seem to be any limit to how much money the FED can infuse into the system this way. This is a direct injection without the process of getting any type of bank approval.

It would seem to me that if the FED can print up Trillions of dollars to keep markets solvent, why can't they do the same to help out Main Street. They could easily print up the seed money needed to start UBI. This would make more sense to me because markets are unstable, where as building an economic floor for the poor would stabilize both markets, lessen social tensions in this country between the haves and have not's.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:18 am 
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Can you please keep the political crap on the other page? This site has already gone to hell in a hand basket due curly, moe and larry posting BS, attacks and bad information all over the place. Alan, Danny and LR have run off almost everyone as it is. I rarely visit\contribute and they recently ran off MrScott. Most just leave without saying anything.

This site could benefit greatly with addition by subtraction. I am sure that's not going to happen so at least keep the site Karaoke focused. I understand some talk regarding Covid19, but come on!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:37 am 
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MrBoo wrote:
Can you please keep the political crap on the other page? This site has already gone to hell in a hand basket due curly, moe and larry posting BS, attacks and bad information all over the place. Alan, Danny and LR have run off almost everyone as it is. I rarely visit\contribute and they recently ran off MrScott. Most just leave without saying anything.

This site could benefit greatly with addition by subtraction. I am sure that's not going to happen so at least keep the site Karaoke focused. I understand some talk regarding Covid19, but come on!



:!: Really MrBoo there is very little that is happening currently with karaoke, the reason being Covid19, as far as the industry is concerned most hosts now are not doing gigs. Unfortunately karaoke hosting indoors just about hits all of the buttons, as far as spreading Covid19. How is factual information bad information? You might not like the facts, I don't like them much either, but they are stubborn things that aren't going away. You cannot deny they have had an impact on our industry and the rest of the nation. I think most hosts would like to have a Universal Basic Income during this time of job uncertainty, especially the one's that say they have to work, to eat, and pay their basic living expenses.

P.S. We didn't run MrScott off, I at least took an interest in what he was doing, as far as trying to do a show during the pandemic. He is a host that needed to work, personally I don't think that hosts should have to choose between eating, and being safe. I would hope that others would feel that way.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:57 am 
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:!: This morning a Harvard economist predicted the dollar will fall 35% in the next year. This is matched by a drop in the GDP by a similar amount. With at least 35 million unemployed, and the actual unemployment rate around 16%, not the 13% posted, it will be a grim year for most workers, since Congress is dragging it's feet in the Senate, about more stimulus. We have until July 31st to enact something. The solution needs to be at least for the duration of the pandemic, which is looking more each day the it is becoming endemic.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:58 am 
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MrBoo wrote:
Can you please keep the political crap on the other page?

This is NOT about politics. This is about a pandemic that has affected us all and still continues to do so. It's about the challenge we face as hosts, the actions we take, and the consequences of our decisions.

Karaoke hosts are on the front lines. They are a likely risk for the virus. And they are scared.

So, listen up Boo Boo... this is not about politics... it's about human lives.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:47 am 
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It seems Moscow Mitch is now talking finally about another direct payment to those that are still struggling in this covid -19 environment. He is stating that the next round of stimulus should go to those making $40,000 a year or less. He wants to take up the issue after the Congress's summer break July the 20th. That is just 11 days before the current money voted expires on July 31st. Nancy P. has already sent over her bill and I guess there will be some horse trading. This is again just a one time payment, which will help buy food and pay rent for a couple of months. After that it is back to where we started again. It is time to really think about UBI, some reps want direct payments to continue as long as the pandemic is with us. After seeing many specials on working poor that have to work 2 or 3 jobs just to pay rent, it is really time to start looking at UBI, for all. UBI would also help hosts who are out of work due to lock downs, and venues they used to work for having to close down some never to reopen.


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