Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums :: Bad Singers

cueball wrote:

I pointed out that I had a reputation as a KJ, and if I started to selectively keep someone from singing, word will spread, and then others would not want to attend my shows.

The only thing that would affect your reputation would be from people saying: "We don't want to go to his show. He's the one with the bad singers".

Listen, I think that before cancelling karaoke, the owner was trying to be fair. He gave you an option, which you refused. You cared more about the one singer who was detrimental to the bar, than everyone else who came out to sing. Wouldn't you rather have 1 disappointed person than 20? So, the night was ruined because of one person.

Again, from a business perspective, the bar owner did the right thing.

Alan B wrote:

cueball wrote:

I pointed out that I had a reputation as a KJ, and if I started to selectively keep someone from singing, word will spread, and then others would not want to attend my shows.

I disagree with you here. As others have said, if the Owner had a problem with that one customer, he should have approached him rather than putting that on me. As far as a reputation goes, it doesn't matter whether you are a good singer or a bad singer. Karaoke is there for everyone. When a participant gets skipped over in a rotation, that person gets upset (I know I do). People who get skipped over, tend to talk to others about it at a later date ("I don't want to go to that KJ's show because he played favorites with others and skipped me in the rotation.", or, "That KJ takes bribes and skips people.")... (again... I know I have spread the word to others when it came to attending a show where the KJ was not fair). So YES!!!! Word travels, and thus reputations are affected.

cueball,, am I on the right track here? or am I just out in the night with my input?

mrscott wrote:

cueball,, am I on the right track here? or am I just out in the night with my input?

I think we're on the same page. Alan just seems to have a very extreme point of view.

I don't think that there's anything extreme about it. I'm just being real. And the reality is...

A person who is driving customers away because of his/her singing... should not be allowed to sing. A person like this is only hurting the bar, your customers, and your show. And that's the bottom line.

As I have said, not everyone should sing. If you're too stupid to realize that your singing sucks and that you're turning people off thereby creating a negative experience, then the host should take action....

... Nobody wants to listen to a drunk, a screamer, or someone shouting obscenities looking for attention. It is NOT providing a positive fun experience. These people should definitely not be allowed to sing....

...So, let me say once again...

If you suck at singing, then you shouldn't sing in public. We don't want to hear you and you're really making a fool out of yourself.

If hosts were honest with the bad singers, it would be much appreciated by everyone. Tell them: "hey you're a great guy but singing might not be your thing".

Again, it's not for everyone

Bottom line, bad singers should not sing. I have not stopped anyone from singing, unless drunk or stupid, or if you dropped a mic, but I would prefer along with other singers, customers, and bar owners than they don't sing.

You would prefer, but as you just said, you are NOT practicing what you preach... THUS, you are just expressing an extremist point of view.

No one wants to listen to a bad singer. No one. It's like scratching your nails on a chalkboard.

I would take a terrible, absolutely awful singer over someone with a great voice but a crap attitude any day of the week.

NoShameKaraoke wrote:

I would take a terrible, absolutely awful singer over someone with a great voice but a crap attitude any day of the week.

Seriously?? So, let me get this straight... you're saying you would rather listen to a bad singer over a good singer. Is this correct?

Well, I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that for the rest of the world, the opposite is true. I really don't know anybody that would rather listen to a terrible singer over a great singer. But now I do.

Putting attitudes aside, there's the pure "joy" factor of listening to someone who can sing, adding to the entertainment value of your show. I look forward to hearing the great singers. So does everyone else in the bar including, non singers, servers, and owners.

I think I'm done with this. I said all there is to be said, but let me leave you with this...

Everyone has something they are good at. And that's what they should focus on. Just because you have a voice doesn't make you a singer. At least there are people who are smart enough to acknowledge this...

So many times when I've walked up to people in the bar asking them if they'd like to sing, the response I usually get is: I can't sing. I have a terrible voice. Do you want me to drive everybody away?

At least these folks are smart enough to realize that singing isn't for them and that they have a terrible voice. I applaud them.

Again, "if you can't do something right, don't do it at all". That includes singing.

Seriously?? So, let me get this straight... you're saying you would rather listen to a bad singer over a good singer. Is this correct?

Alan B wrote:

Seriously?? So, let me get this straight... you're saying you would rather listen to a bad singer over a good singer. Is this correct?

No. Read exactly what I said. Bad singer great attitude over great singer bad attitude. Obviously, the ideal is great singer great attitude.

It's like saying people hate watching their kids' sporting events because their kids aren't professional players.

I'm not just talking about singers who are off key or tone deaf but the drunken ones who only know how to scream profusely into the microphone for the duration of the song.

Now, I understand that karaoke is supposed to be about fun for everyone but... it's no fun when people are covering their ears and running for the door. Most people don't want to be a part of it.

As I've said in the other thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39487, I've seen bars lose many customers over this because they couldn't take it anymore and got up and left. And I can't blame them. This is not singing, it's torture. It's not even fun anymore. And it's what gives karaoke a bad name.

Personally, I don't feel some loud mouth singer from hell should make the show unbearable and ruin it for everyone else.

So, where do you draw the line? Have you ever cut anyone from singing? If you see people are not happy with this type of singer and are complaining or leaving, what do you do? Do you allow this crap to go on?

Interesting topic...

I'm interested in the topic as well. I've wondered if we could create a system where unpopular singers could be weighted, based upon audience interest, so that poor singers at least get to sing less.

There is a benefit I have noticed from bad singers, I've seen it embolden OK singers who felt that if that person didn't get rotten tomatoes, then surely they were passable. So this was a positive which came from it.

Frankspeare wrote:

Screw that. Equals playing favorites. If you can't or won't give every singer equal time per rotation, you need to get your butt out of the business. It's not how good the singer is but how much fun every singer has and it's not fun being skipped in the rotation fir any reason.

Author:	Cueball [ Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
Alan B wrote: cueball wrote: I pointed out that I had a reputation as a KJ, and if I started to selectively keep someone from singing, word will spread, and then others would not want to attend my shows. The only thing that would affect your reputation would be from people saying: "We don't want to go to his show. He's the one with the bad singers". Listen, I think that before cancelling karaoke, the owner was trying to be fair. He gave you an option, which you refused. You cared more about the one singer who was detrimental to the bar, than everyone else who came out to sing. Wouldn't you rather have 1 disappointed person than 20? So, the night was ruined because of one person. Again, from a business perspective, the bar owner did the right thing. I disagree with you here. As others have said, if the Owner had a problem with that one customer, he should have approached him rather than putting that on me. As far as a reputation goes, it doesn't matter whether you are a good singer or a bad singer. Karaoke is there for everyone. When a participant gets skipped over in a rotation, that person gets upset (I know I do). People who get skipped over, tend to talk to others about it at a later date ("I don't want to go to that KJ's show because he played favorites with others and skipped me in the rotation.", or, "That KJ takes bribes and skips people.")... (again... I know I have spread the word to others when it came to attending a show where the KJ was not fair). So YES!!!! Word travels, and thus reputations are affected.

Author:	mrscott [ Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
cueball wrote: Alan B wrote: cueball wrote: I pointed out that I had a reputation as a KJ, and if I started to selectively keep someone from singing, word will spread, and then others would not want to attend my shows. The only thing that would affect your reputation would be from people saying: "We don't want to go to his show. He's the one with the bad singers". Listen, I think that before cancelling karaoke, the owner was trying to be fair. He gave you an option, which you refused. You cared more about the one singer who was detrimental to the bar, than everyone else who came out to sing. Wouldn't you rather have 1 disappointed person than 20? So, the night was ruined because of one person. Again, from a business perspective, the bar owner did the right thing. I disagree with you here. As others have said, if the Owner had a problem with that one customer, he should have approached him rather than putting that on me. As far as a reputation goes, it doesn't matter whether you are a good singer or a bad singer. Karaoke is there for everyone. When a participant gets skipped over in a rotation, that person gets upset (I know I do). People who get skipped over, tend to talk to others about it at a later date ("I don't want to go to that KJ's show because he played favorites with others and skipped me in the rotation.", or, "That KJ takes bribes and skips people.")... (again... I know I have spread the word to others when it came to attending a show where the KJ was not fair). So YES!!!! Word travels, and thus reputations are affected. cueball,, am I on the right track here? or am I just out in the night with my input?

Author:	Frankspeare [ Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
I'm interested in the topic as well. I've wondered if we could create a system where unpopular singers could be weighted, based upon audience interest, so that poor singers at least get to sing less. There is a benefit I have noticed from bad singers, I've seen it embolden OK singers who felt that if that person didn't get rotten tomatoes, then surely they were passable. So this was a positive which came from it.

Author:	Cueball [ Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
mrscott wrote: cueball,, am I on the right track here? or am I just out in the night with my input? I think we're on the same page. Alan just seems to have a very extreme point of view.

Author:	Alan B [ Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
cueball wrote: mrscott wrote: cueball,, am I on the right track here? or am I just out in the night with my input? I think we're on the same page. Alan just seems to have a very extreme point of view. I don't think that there's anything extreme about it. I'm just being real. And the reality is... A person who is driving customers away because of his/her singing... should not be allowed to sing. A person like this is only hurting the bar, your customers, and your show. And that's the bottom line.

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Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line? http://karaokescene.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39608	Page 3 of 6

Author:	Cueball [ Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
Alan B wrote: I don't think that there's anything extreme about it. I'm just being real. And the reality is... A person who is driving customers away because of his/her singing... should not be allowed to sing. A person like this is only hurting the bar, your customers, and your show. And that's the bottom line. Alan B wrote: As I have said, not everyone should sing. If you're too stupid to realize that your singing sucks and that you're turning people off thereby creating a negative experience, then the host should take action.... Now THAT is just insulting to everyone, to refer to some random person who can't sing as being stupid for getting up and trying to have some fun. Alan B wrote: ... Nobody wants to listen to a drunk, a screamer, or someone shouting obscenities looking for attention. It is NOT providing a positive fun experience. These people should definitely not be allowed to sing.... AGREED!!!!! Alan B wrote: ...So, let me say once again... If you suck at singing, then you shouldn't sing in public. We don't want to hear you and you're really making a fool out of yourself. If hosts were honest with the bad singers, it would be much appreciated by everyone. Tell them: "hey you're a great guy but singing might not be your thing". Again, it's not for everyone I don't know of a single KJ who would tell one of the participants that their singing sucks, and they should just stop trying!!! It's a totally different thing if they're just SHOUTING or singing/shouting/saying obscenities over the mic (when they aren't in the lyrics of the song), regardless of whether they are drunk or not. If the obscenities are in the lyrics, then it's your own fault for allowing the song to be sung in the first place (if you felt it was going to cause such distress amongst the Management/Staff/Customers). Alan B wrote: Bottom line, bad singers should not sing. I have not stopped anyone from singing, unless drunk or stupid, or if you dropped a mic, but I would prefer along with other singers, customers, and bar owners than they don't sing. You would prefer, but as you just said, you are NOT practicing what you preach... THUS, you are just expressing an extremist point of view.

Author:	Alan B [ Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
cueball wrote: You would prefer, but as you just said, you are NOT practicing what you preach... THUS, you are just expressing an extremist point of view. I'm not practicing what I preach because at this point, I really don't have any singers so bad that they're driving customers away. Yes, like any other show, I do get my share of bad singers. And while I would "prefer" not to listen to them, they are tolerable. And as I've said, good or bad, everyone (with exceptions stated above) is allowed to sing at my shows. But mark my words, if I had a singer that was causing customers to leave, they would not be singing at my shows, period!

Author:	NoShameKaraoke [ Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
Alan B wrote: No one wants to listen to a bad singer. No one. It's like scratching your nails on a chalkboard. Again, no. A thousand times no. * In some cases, people hope to follow the bad singer, because they sound better by comparison * In some cases, people embrace the bad singer, because karaoke is not all that serious, and the bad singer can be fun in a so-bad-it's-good way * In some cases, people are mean and petty and awful, and like to watch people fail (some of the highest rated reality competition show episodes are the absolutely ghastly audition ones) * In some cases, the terrible singer wins the crowd over just by doing it I would take a terrible, absolutely awful singer over someone with a great voice but a crap attitude any day of the week.

Author:	Alan B [ Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
NoShameKaraoke wrote: I would take a terrible, absolutely awful singer over someone with a great voice but a crap attitude any day of the week. Seriously?? So, let me get this straight... you're saying you would rather listen to a bad singer over a good singer. Is this correct? Well, I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that for the rest of the world, the opposite is true. I really don't know anybody that would rather listen to a terrible singer over a great singer. But now I do. Putting attitudes aside, there's the pure "joy" factor of listening to someone who can sing, adding to the entertainment value of your show. I look forward to hearing the great singers. So does everyone else in the bar including, non singers, servers, and owners. I think I'm done with this. I said all there is to be said, but let me leave you with this... Everyone has something they are good at. And that's what they should focus on. Just because you have a voice doesn't make you a singer. At least there are people who are smart enough to acknowledge this... So many times when I've walked up to people in the bar asking them if they'd like to sing, the response I usually get is: I can't sing. I have a terrible voice. Do you want me to drive everybody away? At least these folks are smart enough to realize that singing isn't for them and that they have a terrible voice. I applaud them. Again, "if you can't do something right, don't do it at all". That includes singing.

Author:	DannyG2006 [ Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
Alan, it all comes down to attitude, that same great singer would also constantly be telling you how to run your board even though you have it set perfectly fine for their voice. Would be trying to harass you into allowing them to skip the rotation and sing again before it's their turn while that bad singer is totally willing to wait out his turn and assume that you are trying your best to make him sing tolerable. So yes I would rather have a bad singer over the total diva of the great singer. Again that is not the norm that I am used to having at my shows or any of the shows that I have attended in my area. Most are fair to great singers. My friend, who proves the point that everyone has a song or two that they actually sound good on, is the only one that I know of that if he strays from those songs that he is good at would drive people to leave supposedly, I have never seen that happen since I knew him.

Author:	Paradigm Karaoke [ Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
Alan B wrote: NoShameKaraoke wrote: I would take a terrible, absolutely awful singer over someone with a great voice but a crap attitude any day of the week. Seriously?? So, let me get this straight... you're saying you would rather listen to a bad singer over a good singer. Is this correct? Well, I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that for the rest of the world, the opposite is true. I really don't know anybody that would rather listen to a terrible singer over a great singer. But now I do. Putting attitudes aside, there's the pure "joy" factor of listening to someone who can sing, adding to the entertainment value of your show. I look forward to hearing the great singers. So does everyone else in the bar including, non singers, servers, and owners. I think I'm done with this. I said all there is to be said, but let me leave you with this... Everyone has something they are good at. And that's what they should focus on. Just because you have a voice doesn't make you a singer. At least there are people who are smart enough to acknowledge this... So many times when I've walked up to people in the bar asking them if they'd like to sing, the response I usually get is: I can't sing. I have a terrible voice. Do you want me to drive everybody away? At least these folks are smart enough to realize that singing isn't for them and that they have a terrible voice. I applaud them. Again, "if you can't do something right, don't do it at all". That includes singing. kick out the bad singers and tell us how it goes.

Author:	NoShameKaraoke [ Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
Alan B wrote: Seriously?? So, let me get this straight... you're saying you would rather listen to a bad singer over a good singer. Is this correct? No. Read exactly what I said. Bad singer great attitude over great singer bad attitude. Obviously, the ideal is great singer great attitude. It's like saying people hate watching their kids' sporting events because their kids aren't professional players.

Author:	DannyG2006 [ Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
You want to hear a professional singer, get tickets to their concerts. You don't care if they are mediocre at worst, go to karaoke. It's what karaoke is all about. I have yet to see a bar clear out for a lousy singer and I have seen lousy singers. It's Karaoke, no one expects to hear Steve Perry at Karaoke. Sometimes you get pretty close but everyone who goes to a karaoke show expects imperfection at the worst.

Author:	The Lone Ranger [ Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
NoShameKaraoke wrote: Alan B wrote: Seriously?? So, let me get this straight... you're saying you would rather listen to a bad singer over a good singer. Is this correct? No. Read exactly what I said. Bad singer great attitude over great singer bad attitude. Obviously, the ideal is great singer great attitude. It's like saying people hate watching their kids' sporting events because their kids aren't professional players. The whole point to non professional anything is PARTICIPATION, getting everyone involved and providing entertainment, if you are a host that is job number one.

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Author:	dvdgdry [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
Right on Kimosabe! You just said it all in a simple sentence. A good host makes himself a friend to all singers. Something can always be said good about a person. Sometimes all it takes is introducing your singer with that in mind. Give them something descriptive that is good to go along with their name and everyone in the audience will show them some respect. It has worked for me countless times. Such as Gentleman Dave my Rock, Lady Ashley, Miss Shy Susan maybe not, The Man The Myth The Voice Michael , and here's our favorite Adlibber Travis, Next we have my favorite Cajun Couple from New Orleans they make the best Filet Gumbo ask them their recipe I'm sure they'll be happy to share, welcome to my little brother percussionist extraordinaire and I'm not kidding Tony G (he's 6'3" black, I'm 5'7" white), etc... If you are really close to the person you can even say, "Our next singer is NOT totally useless, actually he can be used as a bad example! Come on up here Jerry!" It is up to the HOST to make the night fun for all and it can be done by lightening up the atmosphere regardless of the talent pool. Occassional intros like these always work for me.

Author:	Capt Frank [ Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
Alan B wrote: I'm not just talking about singers who are off key or tone deaf but the drunken ones who only know how to scream profusely into the microphone for the duration of the song. Now, I understand that karaoke is supposed to be about fun for everyone but... it's no fun when people are covering their ears and running for the door. Most people don't want to be a part of it. As I've said in the other thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39487, I've seen bars lose many customers over this because they couldn't take it anymore and got up and left. And I can't blame them. This is not singing, it's torture. It's not even fun anymore. And it's what gives karaoke a bad name. Personally, I don't feel some loud mouth singer from hell should make the show unbearable and ruin it for everyone else. So, where do you draw the line? Have you ever cut anyone from singing? If you see people are not happy with this type of singer and are complaining or leaving, what do you do? Do you allow this crap to go on? Interesting topic... That's why you have the power to turn them down. One very serious issue I've seen over the years is that many people have poor hearing and they tend to sing over top the music. Even if that person's a good singer, you don't want to hear loud over top of the music. Most bad singers sing away from the mic and you have to turn them up, sometimes causing feedback. Either way it's your job to help them along or at least try.

Author:	DannyG2006 [ Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
Frankspeare wrote: I'm interested in the topic as well. I've wondered if we could create a system where unpopular singers could be weighted, based upon audience interest, so that poor singers at least get to sing less. There is a benefit I have noticed from bad singers, I've seen it embolden OK singers who felt that if that person didn't get rotten tomatoes, then surely they were passable. So this was a positive which came from it. Screw that. Equals playing favorites. If you can't or won't give every singer equal time per rotation, you need to get your butt out of the business. It's not how good the singer is but how much fun every singer has and it's not fun being skipped in the rotation fir any reason.

Author:	Alan B [ Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
DannyG2006 wrote: Frankspeare wrote: I'm interested in the topic as well. I've wondered if we could create a system where unpopular singers could be weighted, based upon audience interest, so that poor singers at least get to sing less. There is a benefit I have noticed from bad singers, I've seen it embolden OK singers who felt that if that person didn't get rotten tomatoes, then surely they were passable. So this was a positive which came from it. Screw that. Equals playing favorites. If you can't or won't give every singer equal time per rotation, you need to get your butt out of the business. It's not how good the singer is but how much fun every singer has and it's not fun being skipped in the rotation fir any reason. Danny, it's not just about fun, it's about business. If I had a really bad singer that was driving customers away, guess who's going? I'm not going to lose good customers because of one bad apple. So, that bad apple is gone.

Author:	Charmin_Gibson [ Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
Wow, times have changed. I haven't been out in the karaoke world for a couple of minutes, but I would never have imagined seeing a KJ ask a singer to stop singing because they were bad. (Drunk & obnoxious-yes, but naturally bad-no.) When i did frequent karaoke bars often, this is what I expected (EVERY time): a few amazing singers who would knock your socks off, several mediocre diva guys/gals who would make you roll your eyes because they thought of themselves as the next Garth/Gretchen, at least one singer that was horrible but knew & was there for fun only & caused you to smother your giggles, and that little old man who used to have a band 50 years ago and tries to breathlessly make it through a scratchy version of Johnny Cash, bless his heart. And I'd have missed out on a LOT of fun nights if it hadn't gone exactly that way. Karaoke is not a concert, it's a hobby. Yes, yes, I realize KJs make their money that way. But geez. Anyone sitting in the audience expecting a free professional concert is in the wrong place. The places I used to habit...if a bad singer were asked to step out of rotation JUST because they couldn't sing? You'd have lost every single singer in the place. Some of these posts are UNbelievable. The bar is paying you...but those singers are your bread and butter. All of them.

Author:	Lonman [ Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bad Singers - Where do you draw the line?
What Charmin said!