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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:56 pm 
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Goes to show you just how much out of the loop I am ... I did not know that UK companies were blocking IP addresses in the US. Makes no sense to me, but I don't suppose they're doing it by choice.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:11 am 
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yeah, after the lawsuits over there from the big labels they had to block U.S. I.P. addresses. Sunfly has a U.S. only site with songs they got U.S. licensing for, but the majority are still U.K. only since they primarily use PRSformusic licenses.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:59 am 
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Interesting ... I'll have to research this a bit when I get the chance. Talk about the camel with its nose under the tent. This is an extremely dangerous precedent when you think about it. If they (rights holders?) can force companies to block access to foreign markets, and are allowed to get away with this, it begs the question as to what's next? Very sad!


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:06 am 
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Something to consider... I usually do a few private Christmas shows and look for alternate versions to mix things up. It sometimes takes quite a few tries at some versions before you can figure out how to sing it. Christmas songs are probably more challenging than most, simply because of all the variations of most songs.

I might be hesitant to go up and do an alternate version cold at a club for that reason. Then again, I like to know every version I am doing so I may not have a valid point.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:49 pm 
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Bastiat wrote:
Interesting ... I'll have to research this a bit when I get the chance. Talk about the camel with its nose under the tent. This is an extremely dangerous precedent when you think about it. If they (rights holders?) can force companies to block access to foreign markets, and are allowed to get away with this, it begs the question as to what's next? Very sad!

the only reason is because they are not getting the U.S. licensing. PRSformusic licensing specifically excludes the U.S. and Canada. they have to get direct licensing from the rights holders to sell the songs here just like U.S. based manus like Karaoke.net etc do.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:25 pm 
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MrBoo wrote:
Something to consider... I usually do a few private Christmas shows and look for alternate versions to mix things up. It sometimes takes quite a few tries at some versions before you can figure out how to sing it. Christmas songs are probably more challenging than most, simply because of all the variations of most songs.

I might be hesitant to go up and do an alternate version cold at a club for that reason. Then again, I like to know every version I am doing so I may not have a valid point.

Do you think a multiplex track would help?


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:36 pm 
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such
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
the only reason is because they are not getting the U.S. licensing. PRSformusic licensing specifically excludes the U.S. and Canada. they have to get direct licensing from the rights holders to sell the songs here just like U.S. based manus like Karaoke.net etc do.

Yeah I assumed that to be the case. I don't suspect any karaoke label will challenge that, but I suspect it doesn't stand on as solid legal ground and it's being portrayed. Sounds pretty convoluted especially when you consider things like "first sale" doctrines for physical goods, etc. although I don't know how such doctrines are viewed in the UK, but there are definitely several questions of which I would like to know the answers.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:20 am 
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Bastiat wrote:
MrBoo wrote:
Something to consider... I usually do a few private Christmas shows and look for alternate versions to mix things up. It sometimes takes quite a few tries at some versions before you can figure out how to sing it. Christmas songs are probably more challenging than most, simply because of all the variations of most songs.

I might be hesitant to go up and do an alternate version cold at a club for that reason. Then again, I like to know every version I am doing so I may not have a valid point.

Do you think a multiplex track would help?


I really do. That way the singer can get an idea of what was intended with the arrangement. I think that is why current re-makes work well. Many times I will only listen to a re-make once or twice just to get an idea of the key and any major cadence changes.

Take Disturbed's "Sound of Silence". Disturbed recorded a bunch of vocal variations. Some rough all the way through, some soft all the way through. From what I understand the production team pieced the end result together from the many takes. I listened to their version three times then went to work on my version.

There are also some awesome bluegrass ACDC remakes as a general idea on ways to bend songs from one genre to another. The vocals on those are very distinct and worth modeling after.

There are a lot of great karaoke singers. A key difference between most karaoke singers and artists: Karaoke singers, in general, have not developed skills to create their own works. That isn't a knock, it just is what it is. Those skills take time and lots of practice. Most karaoke singer do not have time to develop those skills. Help them with some sample vocals.

Come to think of it, I wold love to have some bluegrass ACDC remakes. LOL


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:05 am 
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Mr Boo, those Blugrass Covers of rock artists,
Isn't that the "Picking On" bluegrass series of
such groups as Led Zep, and other well known
Rock bands, I have a few, can't remember who's
on em.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:19 am 
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Bastiat wrote:
Goes to show you just how much out of the loop I am ... I did not know that UK companies were blocking IP addresses in the US. Makes no sense to me, but I don't suppose they're doing it by choice.



Bastiat, It's not only the UK but Australia also.
I can't even buy a physical, real life, hold in your,
Mits! cdg from capital, and the song I want is by an
American artist.Whup! There goes that nervous tic again!


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:31 am 
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Warrenkel16 wrote:
Mr Boo, those Blugrass Covers of rock artists,
Isn't that the "Picking On" bluegrass series of
such groups as Led Zep, and other well known
Rock bands, I have a few, can't remember who's
on em.

The bluegrass series has been done on Karaoke? I really haven't looked.

Here's a few Youtubes of the guys I was thinking of. ACDC and Metallica...
https://youtu.be/e4Ao-iNPPUc

https://youtu.be/3JFb_aOn6rc


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:19 pm 
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THERE'S A GROUP CALLED HAYSEED DIXIE THAT PLAYS A LOT OF CLASSIC ROCK SONGS IN A BLUE GRASS STYLE


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:46 pm 
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Warrenkel16 wrote:
Bastiat wrote:
Goes to show you just how much out of the loop I am ... I did not know that UK companies were blocking IP addresses in the US. Makes no sense to me, but I don't suppose they're doing it by choice.



Bastiat, It's not only the UK but Australia also.
I can't even buy a physical, real life, hold in your,
Mits! cdg from capital, and the song I want is by an
American artist.Whup! There goes that nervous tic again!

What song?

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:22 am 
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2 drawbacks I can see -

1) No way in heck you'd be able to get away with using the same cdg on most of the countrified or blue grassed versions.
Phrasing and timing of words would be completely different even at the same tempo.

2) I get pissed at shows where the KJ can't, or won't, tell you what version they have. Many times you ask a kj if they have a particular song by a particular karaoke manufacturer and they yes. After waiting for an hour and a half to get onstage they launch some midi-crap tink tink garbage. Please don't give these morons yet another way to screw things up.

One possible plus would be that the countrified versions would probably work better if you're running a Shatner contest where everyone has to sing in Will Shatner mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:16 pm 
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dsm 2000 wrote:
1) No way in heck you'd be able to get away with using the same cdg on most of the countrified or blue grassed versions.
Phrasing and timing of words would be completely different even at the same tempo.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Certainly some songs just won't lend themselves to a drastic change in format, but as far as phrasing and timing are concerned well those are two different animals. You can change the phrasing of any song without rhythmically changing the melody line simply by changing the dynamics of the notes in the melody line. I used to do it all the time when I sang in bands or in my solo act. Same thing with timing. The performer can take some liberties with the timing and phrasing but not to the point where it actually changes the melody line. Aside from the fact that doing so would change the melody of the song and therefore not be the song, but also it would be a potential violation of copyright.

As far as substituting MIDI files for fully produced music ... that would seem to me to be a bigger problem with a lack of honesty and professionalism. I'm guessing that any host who does things like that wouldn't be investing in alternate versions and probably does a lot of things that a professional host wouldn't do. It's probably best to not patronize shows with these kinds of hosts.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:21 pm 
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MrBoo wrote:
Warrenkel16 wrote:
Mr Boo, those Blugrass Covers of rock artists,
Isn't that the "Picking On" bluegrass series of
such groups as Led Zep, and other well known
Rock bands, I have a few, can't remember who's
on em.

The bluegrass series has been done on Karaoke? I really haven't looked.

Here's a few Youtubes of the guys I was thinking of. ACDC and Metallica...
https://youtu.be/e4Ao-iNPPUc

https://youtu.be/3JFb_aOn6rc

Mr. Boo,, No not on Karaoke, Sorry, I did not
make myself clear on that point. It would be
nice if they were, I find them entertaining. :mrgreen:
I like those guys Too! I don't know it they are the same
Picking on series artists, time to do some homework!


Last edited by Warrenkel16 on Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:26 pm 
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Lonman wrote:
Warrenkel16 wrote:
Bastiat wrote:
Goes to show you just how much out of the loop I am ... I did not know that UK companies were blocking IP addresses in the US. Makes no sense to me, but I don't suppose they're doing it by choice.



Bastiat, It's not only the UK but Australia also.
I can't even buy a physical, real life, hold in your,
Mits! cdg from capital, and the song I want is by an
American artist.Whup! There goes that nervous tic again!

What song?


L.A. International Airport by Susan Raye.
My better half loves that song, Lonman.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Versions?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:34 pm 
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I love this idea, as do many of my singers.
All the tracks on Zoom's acoustic disc have been sung by my singers.
I have many of the Hayseed Dixie tracks from KV and they have been sung, as well as stuff by the Baseballs which are Rockabilly versions.
I would love the acoustic piano version of We're Not Gonna Take It, that Dee Snider did with Kris Angel, but would be very interested in anything you did.
I tell my singers to trust that they know the normal song and then they soon get how it goes.
Karaoke is supposed to be about having fun and trying different things not practising a song so much that you do it to death.
Zoom also did a rock version of Penny Arcade which is also brilliant.
If you already know the tune of the original you should be able to pretty much apply it to any version.


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