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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:45 pm 
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mrmarog wrote:
RLC wrote:
(Alan) Let’s have a beer sometime…I’m buying.

Hey, I like beer too! :) I might even show up some time.

I would be happy to buy you a beer Roger! Brian, Lone Ranger, Lonman, Paradigm and Danny too.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:57 pm 
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Bastiat wrote:
I suppose what has a tendency to rub me the wrong way is when people start labeling other people as "free loaders". Here again this is not something unique to KJs as many of my musician peers I'm sure used similar terms, but the irony of this is that this is coming from a group of people who like to get paid in cash they don't report on their tax returns, and right up to the establishment itself that hides as much cash from the taxman as it possibly get away with.

Taxes, that is the answer to all our problems. We don't have enough taxes.

Bastiat wrote:
Lastly, on its face, it just seems to me to be a bit mean spirited. What if that table of water drinkers are living on fixed incomes that precludes them from being big spenders, and what if this is one of the few social outlets available to them? Would you still send them away? For all you know you could be the one bright spot in their entire existence and attending your next show is about the only thing they have to look forward to all week long.

Robin Hood to the rescue.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:04 pm 
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RLC wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
RLC wrote:
(Alan) Let’s have a beer sometime…I’m buying.

Hey, I like beer too! :) I might even show up some time.

I would be happy to buy you a beer Roger! Brian, Lone Ranger, Lonman, Paradigm and Danny too.


Hey, I like Bose too..


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:16 pm 
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jdmeister wrote:
RLC wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
RLC wrote:
(Alan) Let’s have a beer sometime…I’m buying.

Hey, I like beer too! :) I might even show up some time.

I would be happy to buy you a beer Roger! Brian, Lone Ranger, Lonman, Paradigm and Danny too.


Hey, I like Bose too..

:lol: JD, it's not about Bose, it's about beer. And your welcome to join us.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:15 pm 
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mrmarog wrote:
Taxes, that is the answer to all our problems. We don't have enough taxes.

If I were a betting man I would have bet the farm that someone would have taken that comment out of context, and politicize it. So congratulations, you were the first to do so (but I'm sure not the only one to think it). Seeing some of you folks seem to be fond of labeling, you can label me an anarcho-capitalist (the handle "Bastiat" might offer a clue) meaning that I believe that ALL TAXATION is theft therefore I don't believe in any form of taxation, but I wasn't attempting to make a political statement. So perhaps after reading this information you might want to reconsider my comments in that context, but I'm not about to explain it to you. If you're unable to grasp its meaning, then we'll just have to leave it at that.

mrmarog wrote:
Robin Hood to the rescue.

So does that make you feel better? Is that supposed to be some sort of an argument? Or is it something that just makes you feel like you're clever? If you disagree with anything I've said, then I respect and welcome a well reasoned difference of opinion. However I have zero respect for smart-ass remarks or the people who serve them.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:23 am 
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Bastiat wrote:
Lastly, on its face, it just seems to me to be a bit mean spirited. What if that table of water drinkers are living on fixed incomes that precludes them from being big spenders, and what if this is one of the few social outlets available to them? Would you still send them away? For all you know you could be the one bright spot in their entire existence and attending your next show is about the only thing they have to look forward to all week long.

Please excuse me for a minute while I wipe the tears away from my eyes...

Are you really that naive?

Would you go to a movie and expect to get in free because of your "situation"? Or would you expect to spend less than everyone else pays for the same items purchased at Walmart because of your "situation"? Or should you be entitled to fill up your car with gas for free because of your "situation"?

Sorry buddy. I'm just not buying it. And for the record... I DO know their situation. Most of them are retirees of General Motors and have great pensions. They have more money than they know what to do with. Believe me, they're not starving. They're just a cheap bunch of freeloaders. Yet, I hear this same bunch talk about their weekend getaways and vacations and most drive new cars. So stop sugar coating it with rainbows and fairy dust. It is what it is.

Now, I'll put my violin away...

I don't mean to sound heartless but when you have the means to support the bar but choose not to, I have no use for you. And if you really can't afford to spend any money, than stay home. Venues are in business to make money, not allow people to take up space in their establishment all night. If you want to go to a place that won't cost you anything, then go to a church. Then again, even churches take a collection and require you to "give". Nothing is free.

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Last edited by Alan B on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:22 am 
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Bastiat wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
Taxes, that is the answer to all our problems. We don't have enough taxes.

If I were a betting man I would have bet the farm that someone would have taken that comment out of context, and politicize it. So congratulations, you were the first to do so (but I'm sure not the only one to think it). Seeing some of you folks seem to be fond of labeling, you can label me an anarcho-capitalist (the handle "Bastiat" might offer a clue) meaning that I believe that ALL TAXATION is theft therefore I don't believe in any form of taxation, but I wasn't attempting to make a political statement. So perhaps after reading this information you might want to reconsider my comments in that context, but I'm not about to explain it to you. If you're unable to grasp its meaning, then we'll just have to leave it at that.

You started it by trying to demonize us (KJs) by assuming we ALL don't pay our taxes and are therefore "freeloaders" too. Every venue I have worked at pays me by check, and I receive a 1099 at the years end (insert apology here). To top that, the tips I receive I give back to the staff. So could I write that off as a charitable donation?

And your record for paying what is owed is flawless? I'd be more than happy to compare notes.

mrmarog wrote:
Robin Hood to the rescue.

So does that make you feel better? Is that supposed to be some sort of an argument? Or is it something that just makes you feel like you're clever? If you disagree with anything I've said, then I respect and welcome a well reasoned difference of opinion. However I have zero respect for smart-ass remarks or the people who serve them.

I'm going to start hanging around at my local Lamborghini dealership, eat their cookies and drink their coffee. Then after a few hours I am going to ask for a free car because I can't afford one, and it would give me a lot of pleasure to have one.

I might even invite a few attractive ladies with me to enjoy the cookies too (they're a sure bet to attract potential Lambo buyers)



My reply was short on purpose (unlike your constant long winded and lofty statements). You knew exactly what my point was without writing a novel.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:45 am 
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Piracy is bad but many singers support shows that are run by pirates. They just don't care about it. They care about other things more, like convenience and travel time and beer prices. It's not much different than Moonshining. Everyone knows that it's illegal but when someone is offering it for sale; lots of people line up to get their jug.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:28 am 
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Bastiat wrote:
If I were a betting man I would have bet the farm that someone would have taken that comment out of context, and politicize it. So congratulations, you were the first to do so (but I'm sure not the only one to think it). Seeing some of you folks seem to be fond of labeling, you can label me an anarcho-capitalist (the handle "Bastiat" might offer a clue) meaning that I believe that ALL TAXATION is theft therefore I don't believe in any form of taxation, but I wasn't attempting to make a political statement. So perhaps after reading this information you might want to reconsider my comments in that context, but I'm not about to explain it to you. If you're unable to grasp its meaning, then we'll just have to leave it at that.

So does that make you feel better? Is that supposed to be some sort of an argument? Or is it something that just makes you feel like you're clever? If you disagree with anything I've said, then I respect and welcome a well reasoned difference of opinion. However I have zero respect for smart-ass remarks or the people who serve them.


8) Whether you like it or not my friend saying ALL TAXATION IS THEFT, is a political statement. Just like the tea baggers who wanted to cut everyone's benefits, but their own, and not pay any taxes. These are the ultimate free loaders. The group that wants their cake and eat it to, and not pay for it. I like the way you group anarchy and capitalism in the same frame. These are two incompatible situations, you can not have capitalism in the middle of anarchy, it doesn't work. The founding fathers realized that men are dishonest by nature, and will always do what is in their own best self interest. You can see that with the current Administration. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, I'm sure you have heard this. Also no one is above the law, or can act as their own judge.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:10 am 
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Truth be told there is a place for "Water Drinkers" at a gig...

1st: Designated Drivers can sing as much as any other person in the place because I know they are getting their group home safe...

2nd: Regulars who may have to lay off the booze that week (Medication, etc.). They tend to be good for it in the long run.

3rd: If my bar's owner says "Don't worry about that one", for whatever reason they have... then I don't.

KJ's know that their employment is based on how much money goes into the till that night. We also enjoy a usually stable group of regulars. We don't have to "police" our people, but over time we get to know our clients,and those who tend to abuse our services in time get weeded out, by the KJ or by the bar itself.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:04 am 
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Phew! I read every word of every post in this thread, and the first thing that struck is how quickly the intended topic got side-tracked... from catering to complainers, to monitoring the cash flow.

The second thing is how fortunate I am in that both my long-term gigs (15 & 9 years) are at service clubs where making a profit is secondary to providing a service or services. Yes, it's important that our bars do well, but its equally important that everyone is made to feel welcome and enjoy their evening. We have our share of water-drinkers and social (moderate) drinkers, but we also have our share of those who drink way to much for their own good, and those folks are monitored closely by the bar staff.

My job, as I see it, is to help provide an atmosphere where everyone feels comfortable... whether that be the 9-year-old who is there every second week (single dad's custody week) to the nine-person staff from a local dental office; to the elderly vet who wants to entertain us with "Hillbilly Heaven" (every damn week!... smile Earl); to the 20-somethings who are scoping out the possibilities of perhaps getting 'lucky'; to the everyday karaoke followers who simply want to show up, socialize, sing, dance, and have a drink or two.

I cannot recall the last time we've had less than 30 singers in either Thursday or Saturday evening venue, along with at least half that number who don't necessarily sing, but still want to enjoy themselves. And we do this by making everyone welcome... adding a personal touch like getting to know their names asap... running a strict and predictable rotation with an absolute minimum of 'dead air'... making drink special announcements... using one-liners and quips when/where appropriate

... and NOT catering to complainers (how's that for getting back on track?)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:13 am 
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Toastedmuffin wrote:
Truth be told there is a place for "Water Drinkers" at a gig...

1st: Designated Drivers can sing as much as any other person in the place because I know they are getting their group home safe...

2nd: Regulars who may have to lay off the booze that week (Medication, etc.). They tend to be good for it in the long run.

3rd: If my bar's owner says "Don't worry about that one", for whatever reason they have... then I don't.

KJ's know that their employment is based on how much money goes into the till that night. We also enjoy a usually stable group of regulars. We don't have to "police" our people, but over time we get to know our clients,and those who tend to abuse our services in time get weeded out, by the KJ or by the bar itself.

1. I can understand being a designated driver and not drinking (alcohol), but there's no reason they can't spend $5 on an appetizer. A cheap price to pay for a night of entertainment while showing your support.

2. I can understand regulars not being able to drink because of medication. But we're talking about a group of people who come out week after week without spending money. And believe me, they have money to spend.

3. I agree with this.

I'm willing to bet that if the bar implemented a $5 cover charge, they would find someplace else to go that was free to get in... even if they could afford the $5.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:20 am 
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Earl wrote:
Phew! I read every word of every post in this thread, and the first thing that struck is how quickly the intended topic got side-tracked... from catering to complainers, to monitoring the cash flow.

Isn't it wonderful how we can be so diverse? LOL

Earl wrote:
And we do this by making everyone welcome... adding a personal touch like getting to know their names asap... running a strict and predictable rotation with an absolute minimum of 'dead air'... making drink special announcements... using one-liners and quips when/where appropriate... and NOT catering to complainers (how's that for getting back on track?)

Thanks for getting us back on track!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:25 am 
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RLC wrote:
jdmeister wrote:
RLC wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
RLC wrote:
(Alan) Let’s have a beer sometime…I’m buying.

Hey, I like beer too! :) I might even show up some time.

I would be happy to buy you a beer Roger! Brian, Lone Ranger, Lonman, Paradigm and Danny too.


Hey, I like Bose too..

:lol: JD, it's not about Bose, it's about beer. And your welcome to join us.

Earl, we have an open seat at our "beer table" for you as well!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:22 am 
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[/quote]
Earl, we have an open seat at our "beer table" for you as well![/quote]

Never learned to partake in that horrible, makes-a-person-mis-behave, devil-drink... but if there happens to be a shot of rye whiskey with a dash of ginger ale nearby, I'd be happy to let you buy one for me.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:48 am 
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Earl wrote:

Earl, we have an open seat at our "beer table" for you as well![/quote]

Never learned to partake in that horrible, makes-a-person-mis-behave, devil-drink... but if there happens to be a shot of rye whiskey with a dash of ginger ale nearby, I'd be happy to let you buy one for me.[/quote]
You've got it Earl.
I like a lowball glass of Dr. McGillicuddy Menthol with my beer, so it won't be just beer drinkers at the table.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:07 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
Every venue I have worked at pays me by check, and I receive a 1099 at the years end.

Same here, Roger. I also receive Form1099-misc each year from my employer.

RLC wrote:
Earl wrote:

Earl, we have an open seat at our "beer table" for you as well!

Never learned to partake in that horrible, makes-a-person-mis-behave, devil-drink... but if there happens to be a shot of rye whiskey with a dash of ginger ale nearby, I'd be happy to let you buy one for me.[/quote]
You've got it Earl.
I like a lowball glass of Dr. McGillicuddy Menthol with my beer, so it won't be just beer drinkers at the table.[/quote]

(bottled) German Spaten Optimator or Coors for me.

An ear nose throat doctor gave me this liquid medicine for my hearing loss. He said two drops a day in my beer, but so far, I haven’t noticed any difference. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:12 pm 
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KJKILLER wrote:
Piracy is bad but many singers support shows that are run by pirates. They just don't care about it. They care about other things more, like convenience and travel time and beer prices. It's not much different than Moonshining. Everyone knows that it's illegal but when someone is offering it for sale; lots of people line up to get their jug.

Seriously doubt it's a matter of they don't care, willing to bet the majority of singers don't even know if a kj is legit or not.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Brian A wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
Every venue I have worked at pays me by check, and I receive a 1099 at the years end.

Same here, Roger. I also receive Form1099-misc each year from my employer.

RLC wrote:
Earl wrote:

Earl, we have an open seat at our "beer table" for you as well!

Never learned to partake in that horrible, makes-a-person-mis-behave, devil-drink... but if there happens to be a shot of rye whiskey with a dash of ginger ale nearby, I'd be happy to let you buy one for me.

Brian A wrote:
You've got it Earl.
I like a lowball glass of Dr. McGillicuddy Menthol with my beer, so it won't be just beer drinkers at the table.

(bottled) German Spaten Optimator or Coors for me.

An ear nose throat doctor gave me this liquid medicine for my hearing loss. He said two drops a day in my beer, but so far, I haven’t noticed any difference. :lol:


Spaten for me too (my beer of choice, German Trifecta in Arizona)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:21 pm 
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I have been burnt by accepting checks but that wasn't because it wouldn't clear. It came down to me insisting on getting the check the day of the show. The very next show they didn't have the check so I didn't unload the equipment, hopped back in the car and went home.

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