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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:06 am 
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Bastiat wrote:
For those of you who think that their role is "make the bar money", you've grossly overestimated the importance of your role. Your role IS NOT to make the bar money...

Totally disagree. Your role IS to make the bar money. That's why they hired you. Otherwise the jukebox would be good enough.

If you are attracting a crowd that doesn't want to support the bar by spending money, then you're worthless to the bar. Entertainment is not free. Bars have to pay for it. Most bars will hire a band and DJ/KJ based on their following.

Twice I was hired by bar owners who happened to be visiting the venue I was working at. They were impressed with me and the amount of singers I had and felt that I would be an asset to their place. There has never been a place that hired me to replace another KJ where I didn't increase sales. Plus, I've brought in more customers.

Yes my friend, your role is to provide entertainment but at the same time, if nobody is coming to your shows or the ones that are coming aren't spending any money, then you're not needed. Yes, you DO play an important role.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:23 am 
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While I agree on what roll I have as entertainment, keep the clientele in the establishment, I also agree that those who are spending absolutely no money don't have any of the rights that soda drinkers, alcohol drinkers and food eaters. They are not customers of the venue and don't deserve to be treated as such. They should be told buy something or leave.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:34 am 
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Alan B wrote:
Bastiat wrote:
For those of you who think that their role is "make the bar money", you've grossly overestimated the importance of your role. Your role IS NOT to make the bar money...

Totally disagree. Your role IS to make the bar money. That's why they hired you. Otherwise the jukebox would be good enough.

If you are attracting a crowd that doesn't want to support the bar by spending money, then you're worthless to the bar. Entertainment is not free. Bars have to pay for it. Most bars will hire a band and DJ/KJ based on their following.

Twice I was hired by bar owners who happened to be visiting the venue I was working at. They were impressed with me and the amount of singers I had and felt that I would be an asset to their place. There has never been a place that hired me to replace another KJ where I didn't increase sales. Plus, I've brought in more customers.

Yes my friend, your role is to provide entertainment but at the same time, if nobody is coming to your shows or the ones that are coming aren't spending any money, then you're not needed. Yes, you DO play an important role.


The jukebox angle is a copout. That's not the same as live entertainment.

It's the bar's job to make money. How they do it is up to them. Entertainment is one way to make money. Just like it's the bar's job to hire good chefs, good bartenders, have good food and alcohol at attractive prices to attract customers who will spend money, it's also their job to hire *good* entertainment. Now, *good* entertainment will attract the kind of crowd that will spend money and make the bar money, but to explicitly say that 'it's the entertainment's job to make the bar money' is wrong. If the bar doesn't vet their entertainment, that's not the entertainment's fault.

It's the bar's job to hire good entertainment that will make them money. Our job is to provide good entertainment. If one of the bar's measure of good entertainment is to hire someone that will bring a following, so be it. Sometimes, bars are willing to take the risk of hiring someone without a built in following and try to build up their own following. It's not uncommon. I've been hired before to build a following at bars that have never done karaoke before and was successful.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:35 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
They should be told buy something or leave.

Perhaps, but not by the entertainment.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:35 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
Lonman wrote:
Alan B wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
I don't play any favorites based on whether or not they are drinking soda or alcohol.

With that attitude, if I owned a bar, you'd never be working for me.
Does this mean you expect your entertainment to enforce who they entertain to based on their spending? Does a band or DJ need to stop playing because someone is spending 'cheaply'? For me as long as the bar is allowing someone to remain on premises - they are equal game to the entertainment regardless of what they are spending - that is not my job to monitor.

Lon, My experience has been that if you put too much responsibility on the bar they will give up karaoke all together. Karaoke has so much to complain about as compared to a band. If I asked, or let the bar monitor the violators, then the bar would fail for sure.
Ok so I ask again, does any other entertainment have to enforce or monitor who is spending what? A cheap spender is still spending. If a bar is having issue with a 'non-spender' then the bar needs to escort the loiterer off the property. If the person is getting only water or soda with free refills - the bar should probably consider changing their policy and charge for bottled water and no free refills - or require a minimum amount per hour or leave. But again I am the entertainment - not a free drink enforcer, not a free bouncer, not a free....insert unreasonable bar request here.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:38 am 
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djdon wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
They should be told buy something or leave.

Perhaps, but not by the entertainment.
Correct!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:07 am 
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8) I agree with Lonnie it is not the job of entertainment to insure patrons are supporting the venue through purchases. It is, however, incumbent upon the entertainment to make sure a proper atmosphere is maintained to keep patrons engaged and buying. The longer they stay the more likely they will spend money. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:15 am 
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Lonman wrote:
djdon wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
They should be told buy something or leave.

Perhaps, but not by the entertainment.
Correct!

I don't say anything to anyone, but I know who they are, and I have very subtle ways of discouraging their return. Sometimes it takes a few weeks, but I "get er dun". In my situation there are only around 100 seats and usually (during season) 125 reservations, 25 of which are on a wait list. Some show up hoping to get a seat, and some wait for a call.

Every seat has a potential dollar value, and in Florida during season, they come here with money to spend. I keep things fun and fast paced. BTW we have a nice dance floor in both places too.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:18 am 
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Alan B wrote:
Bastiat wrote:
For those of you who think that their role is "make the bar money", you've grossly overestimated the importance of your role. Your role IS NOT to make the bar money...

Totally disagree. Your role IS to make the bar money. That's why they hired you. Otherwise the jukebox would be good enough.

If you are attracting a crowd that doesn't want to support the bar by spending money, then you're worthless to the bar. Entertainment is not free.


When you put out advertisements for your show, do you add a footnote stating, "Entertainment is NOT FREE. If you don't spend enough money at the place, you won't get to sing as frequently as the others."?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:30 am 
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I haven't had a printed rule sheet for a while but this was one of the main lines

The most important thing to remember is we are all out to have fun. Either singing or just listening, please support the club you are in. Coffee, Water, & Soda do not pay for the cost of ALLOWING YOU to sing at their establishment. If you do not drink, try a virgin drink or order a food dish (when available). PLEASE show your appreciation of your servers.
Remember if your favorite karaoke club does not make money, they will not continue the service for you!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:16 pm 
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I have one too that I've used...


Attachments:
water 2.jpg
water 2.jpg [ 168.25 KiB | Viewed 1029 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:24 pm 
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cueball wrote:
When you put out advertisements for your show, do you add a footnote stating, "Entertainment is NOT FREE.

Actually, I have (see attachment in post above). I've posted it a few times.

Look, I've never told anybody they couldn't sing (except for a couple of people that were too drunk). And everyone is welcome to sing at my shows regardless of the amount of money they spend. But... if I have a table of people who aren't spending money and the bar owner tells me to cater to the ones who are, you can be damn straight that I'm going to do what he says. These are the people who are supporting the bar and we want to keep them there and keep them happy and keep them coming back. If we lose the water drinkers, no great loss but we don't want to lose good paying customers. In it's most simplest form, this is called doing business and trying to make a profit. Or in other words... take care of the people who take care of you.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:44 pm 
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mrmarog wrote:

Every seat has a potential dollar value, and in Florida during season, they come here with money to spend.

Totally agree. You don't want the non-spenders taking up space when those seats could be going to good paying customers. And I'm sure the bar owner would rather fill those seats with people who will spend money. I find it amazing that so many people on here just don't get it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
mrmarog wrote:

Every seat has a potential dollar value, and in Florida during season, they come here with money to spend.

Totally agree. You don't want the non-spenders taking up space when those seats could be going to good paying customers. And I'm sure the bar owner would rather fill those seats with people who will spend money. I find it amazing that so many people on here just don't get it.

I totally 'get' it, just not my place to enforce it. It is the bars - period. I find it amazing that so many people on here just don't get it!

I will encourage it, announce drink specials make the 'the more you drink the better we sound' jokes, push events, etc...But if someone doesn't take any of the hints - it goes back to the bar to deal with.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Lonman wrote:
Alan B wrote:
mrmarog wrote:

Every seat has a potential dollar value, and in Florida during season, they come here with money to spend.

Totally agree. You don't want the non-spenders taking up space when those seats could be going to good paying customers. And I'm sure the bar owner would rather fill those seats with people who will spend money. I find it amazing that so many people on here just don't get it.

I totally 'get' it, just not my place to enforce it. It is the bars - period. I find it amazing that so many people on here just don't get it!

I will encourage it, announce drink specials make the 'the more you drink the better we sound' jokes, push events, etc...But if someone doesn't take any of the hints - it goes back to the bar to deal with.

100% correct!
(except that it is pretty much just Alan B that doesn't get it)
Well stated Lonman.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Lonman wrote:
Alan B wrote:
mrmarog wrote:

Every seat has a potential dollar value, and in Florida during season, they come here with money to spend.

Totally agree. You don't want the non-spenders taking up space when those seats could be going to good paying customers. And I'm sure the bar owner would rather fill those seats with people who will spend money. I find it amazing that so many people on here just don't get it.

I totally 'get' it, just not my place to enforce it. It is the bars - period. I find it amazing that so many people on here just don't get it!

I will encourage it, announce drink specials make the 'the more you drink the better we sound' jokes, push events, etc...But if someone doesn't take any of the hints - it goes back to the bar to deal with.


I sing way better after a 12 pack..


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:08 pm 
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Alan B wrote:

Look, I've never told anybody they couldn't sing (except for a couple of people that were too drunk). And everyone is welcome to sing at my shows regardless of the amount of money they spend. But... if I have a table of people who aren't spending money and the bar owner tells me to cater to the ones who are, you can be damn straight that I'm going to do what he says. These are the people who are supporting the bar and we want to keep them there and keep them happy and keep them coming back. If we lose the water drinkers, no great loss but we don't want to lose good paying customers. In it's most simplest form, this is called doing business and trying to make a profit. Or in other words... take care of the people who take care of you.

You just made two contradictory statements. If the Management/Owner tells you not to let those people sing (the ones who "aren't spending money"), it doesn't sound like they are very welcome to sing at your show/s. Do you keep passing them over for everyone else the entire evening? Do you conveniently lose their song slip request? Do you delete their name from the queue? If they complain that they haven't gotten up to sing yet, do you tell them, "Once you (and your friends/group) order a drink or some food, then you will be allowed to sing."?

Frankly, if you have an entire table of people at your show who AREN'T SPENDING ANY MONEY, then they are LOITERING. It is MANAGEMENT'S RESPONSIBILITY to escort them off of the premises.


Alan B wrote:
Let's say you have two tables, each with 5 singers. Everyone at table A buys a soda at $2 and buys nothing more for the rest of the night. The bar will have made a whopping $10 off 5 people.

Meanwhile the people at table B all order food and drinks. And order more drinks. The bar is going to make between 2 and 3 hundred dollars off this table.


Let's say you have 1 table of 5 people who order a glass of soda @ $3 or $4 per glass (a more realistic figure in a Bar or Restaurant than $2 (unless you are in an American Legion Hall)), and they order a refill (no free refills) every hour for the entire duration of your show (let's say that's 4 hours). They have now had 4 sodas each (1 drink per each hour), and have spent $60 to $80 (which comes to $12 to $16 per person for the night)

Meanwhile, you have another table of 5 people who are each ordering a Bottle or Pint of Beer @ $6 per drink, and they are also ordering another one every hour (like the other table). They have now spent $120 (which is twice as much as the other table, and comes to $24 per person for the night).

Assuming that there is at least 1 person at each of those tables who is waiting to sing, are you going to discriminate against the Soda Table if Management comes up to you and says you need to cater more to the table of people drinking Beer?


Last edited by cueball on Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:13 pm 
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i thought it was the bartenders job to sell drinks.
it would be like expecting the bartender to produce more singers for us.
everybody has a job, if they each do their job, people stay, drink, and come back.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:36 pm 
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I've been to karaoke venues that have a minimum if you want to sing. No freeloaders allowed.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:12 pm 
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KJKILLER wrote:
I've been to karaoke venues that have a minimum if you want to sing. No freeloaders allowed.


AND, that is something the Venue does, not the KJ.


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