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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:20 am 
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How many of you are going to drop a show if the bar owner tells you that you have to put your tips in with the rest of the staff and then not give you any of the tip money because Trump is able to enact a law that allows restaurant and bar owners to decide how much of the tips his employees receive if any at all?
For myself, I would tell him that I am a contractor and I am not considered an employee therefore any tip that I receive is my money and the law doesn't apply to me. If he says that I am an employee, that would be my last show there and I will let any other company know what they are stepping into.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:29 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
How many of you are going to drop a show if the bar owner tells you that you have to put your tips in with the rest of the staff and then not give you any of the tip money because Trump is able to enact a law that allows restaurant and bar owners to decide how much of the tips his employees receive if any at all?
For myself, I would tell him that I am a contractor and I am not considered an employee therefore any tip that I receive is my money and the law doesn't apply to me. If he says that I am an employee, that would be my last show there and I will let any other company know what they are stepping into.


How are you paid by the venue?
Do you have to punch in or fill out a time card?
Does your check show taxes being taken out?
Will you receive a W2 or a 1099?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:49 am 
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RLC's on the right track.

If you are an employee of the bar and receive a paycheck every week where the bar is paying a portion of your payroll taxes, like social security, worker's comp, etc., then you are an employee of the bar, and the owner has every right to make a policy on your tips.

However, if you are paid as an independent contractor, the bar owner isn't paying any of this stuff on your behalf, and you are not an employee. While he can discontinue your service for pretty much any reason, including not following his "tip rules," you are certainly not his employee, you are a contractor. A contractor makes all their own rules with what they do with their services.

In the case that he is treating you like an employee, but not paying you like an employee, you would actually have legal grounds to sue for back payroll tax benefits.

I guess the reality, though, is you either follow the rules or you leave. I don't think you'd work there very long once he found out you are sueing him. If he's a reasonable guy, however (which most bar owners are not), maybe worth pointing out that you are not an employee of the bar (if in fact you are not).

Good luck with that.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:25 am 
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Whatever I make in tips I split with the wait staff. I never want the staff to think that I am somehow taking tips away from them. Everyone is much happier this way, and they treat me great... which is very nice in this under appreciated business.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:38 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
Whatever I make in tips I split with the wait staff. I never want the staff to think that I am somehow taking tips away from them. Everyone is much happier this way, and they treat me great... which is very nice in this under appreciated business.


I have no problem splitting the tips with the wait staff but the issue I that would guarantee me walking out is that my not receiving my cut and finding out that the rest of the wait staff also not getting their cut.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:49 am 
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What if I make 0 in tips? Does the wait staff still have to split tips with me, or do I only have to split anything *I* receive in tips?

Ridiculous to have to split tips between the wait staff and the entertainment. We're providing 2 different types of service.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:40 am 
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djdon wrote:

Ridiculous to have to split tips between the wait staff and the entertainment. We're providing 2 different types of service.

I agree. Personally, I don't accept tips. Although there has been a couple of times where a customer was adamant that I accept it, so I reluctantly did. But whenever someone tries to tip me, I will always discourage it.

There are some people that, once you accept a tip from them, they now think they're entitled to special favors like bumping them up in the rotation, and giving them special treatment. And I really want no part of that. I do just fine without tips. Never put out a tip jar, which I always thought was tacky.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:09 am 
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Alan B wrote:
There are some people that, once you accept a tip from them, they now think they're entitled to special favors like bumping them up in the rotation, and giving them special treatment. And I really want no part of that. I do just fine without tips. Never put out a tip jar, which I always thought was tacky.

Rare that happens, and on the occasion they ask, I reach back in the jar and hand it back to them.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:08 pm 
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Put "Tips" on one side of the jar and "Bribes (Minimum $20.00)" on the other side of the jar.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:57 pm 
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For me it's only a hypothetical question because I don't accept tips as if the person who gave it to me and gets called up next makes it look like I can be bribed and I can't be. My rotation is locked in from the start of the show and except for being in the bathroom, smoking or serving customers, I don't change the order of the rotation.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:07 pm 
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cousinvinnie wrote:
Put "Tips" on one side of the jar and "Bribes (Minimum $20.00)" on the other side of the jar.

Cuz, that's funny, but please tell us you’re only kidding about this.
You didn’t add an emoji. Seriously?

NEVER ever accept Bribes! It’s ethics and integrity issue. This could put your credibility in question. Just saying. :wink: Peace, bro. 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:32 pm 
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The law already allows owners to decide the tipping policies within their own establishments.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:05 am 
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Tips? What are tips? :D

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:45 am 
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Here's a tip...




Buy low, sell high..


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:27 am 
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jdmeister wrote:
Here's a tip...


Buy low, sell high..

Sideline - out of topic, apologies to op (my unashamed plug for you, JD)

Here’s a tip: Buy low……………jdmeister is a refurbished pc/laptop seller. I bought 2 laptops from him.

He doesn’t sell high. The price is a lot less to comparable quality name-brand pc’s out there. Thanks again, JD

Let us now resume our scheduled programming without any further interruption. 8)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:56 am 
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:mrgreen:

:withstupid:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:03 pm 
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Hmmm ... interesting thread. I was never a karaoke host but I did do a number of solo gigs as a musician for many years. I was never consistent with putting out a tip jar. I think that it was mostly dictated by the gig. Some gigs I had to stand the whole night in which case there never was a convenient place to put a tip jar. In other situations where I was sitting on a stool that might have been a bit more convenient, but to be truthful, I don't even think I was consistent in those gigs either. In other cases for example, I was the organist for the Bruins (mostly the farm team in Providence but sometimes in Boston) and of course a tip jar wouldn't have done me much good (broadcast personnel aren't very good tippers).

But I mostly wanted to comment on what some posters where saying as to whether or not a person is considered a contractor or an employee, and it varies among the states. In the state of Massachusetts for example, just because you issue a 1099 to an employee, the state does not recognize that person to be a subcontractor solely on that basis. Something I learned the hard way. When I ran Stellar Records there were 5 separate entities, 4 C corporations, and a nominee trust which owned the 30,000 sq ft building that housed the offices, studios, CD manufacturing and packaging, and some warehousing etc. There was only one corporation that had "employees" which by law carried workers compensation insurance while the others only used contractor labor, and therefore did not. One day the contractor who performed the building maintenance was injured on the job (or so he says as there were't any witnesses to the fact) he lawyered up and I was sued for not carrying workmens comp plus a $3 million civil suit. It didn't matter that I issued this contractor a 1099, or that he sometimes would not perform any maintenance for weeks at a time or maybe 5 or 6 hours on other weeks. The only thing that saved my bacon in this situation was the fact that I didn't pay him from the trust but from one of the other corporations that I dissolved.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:35 am 
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Bastiat,

You are right in the fact that the business itself doesn't really get to decide who is an employee and who is a contractor. The IRS sets rules, and business must follow them. Otherwise, why would any given business choose to have any employees when they could just declare them all independent contractors, which is far far cheaper for them.

However, that isn't particularly relevant in the cause of the original poster. It would be extremely rare for a karaoke entertainer to be an employee of the bar/restaurant, and the business really shouldn't want them to be, as again, it is far cheaper to have contract labor than employees.

And by the letter of the law, if the OP is a contractor, which he most likely is, then the bar owner has 0% control over where his tips go. "Level of Control" is one of the main distinguishing factors between contractors and employees, and literally a business owner has very little control over a contractor while having almost exclusive control over their employees. And if the owner IS treating his contractor like an employee, well, that contractor has every right to the benefits of being an employee, like payroll taxes that help fund social security, medicare, worker's comp, etc., any other benefits the bar offer their employees, like 401K, health insurance, bonus programs, etc.

The owner can't have it both ways, and in the case of a karaoke entertainer, unless they are literally filling an employee role, like the bar owns the equipment, the bar is a karaoke entertainment theme 7 days a week, etc. (it'd be verrrry limited), then the bar just simply can't treat the KJ like an employee, and they are very liable for all of those back benefits and taxes if they do.

Here's a good page summarizing the IRS guidelines: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-bu ... r-employee

Again, however, if the owner wants to control the KJs tips, well, your options really are 1) Sue the owner for the employee benefits, and lose that gig, 2) Leave the gig, 3) Follow the rule.

It's the reality, and none of them are really good options.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:49 am 
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TopherM wrote:
Bastiat,

You are right in the fact that the business itself doesn't really get to decide who is an employee and who is a contractor. The IRS sets rules, and business must follow them. Otherwise, why would any given business choose to have any employees when they could just declare them all independent contractors, which is far far cheaper for them.

However, that isn't particularly relevant in the cause of the original poster. It would be extremely rare for a karaoke entertainer to be an employee of the bar/restaurant, and the business really shouldn't want them to be, as again, it is far cheaper to have contract labor than employees.

And by the letter of the law, if the OP is a contractor, which he most likely is, then the bar owner has 0% control over where his tips go. "Level of Control" is one of the main distinguishing factors between contractors and employees, and literally a business owner has very little control over a contractor while having almost exclusive control over their employees. And if the owner IS treating his contractor like an employee, well, that contractor has every right to the benefits of being an employee, like payroll taxes that help fund social security, medicare, worker's comp, etc., any other benefits the bar offer their employees, like 401K, health insurance, bonus programs, etc.

The owner can't have it both ways, and in the case of a karaoke entertainer, unless they are literally filling an employee role, like the bar owns the equipment, the bar is a karaoke entertainment theme 7 days a week, etc. (it'd be verrrry limited), then the bar just simply can't treat the KJ like an employee, and they are very liable for all of those back benefits and taxes if they do.

Here's a good page summarizing the IRS guidelines: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-bu ... r-employee

Again, however, if the owner wants to control the KJs tips, well, your options really are 1) Sue the owner for the employee benefits, and lose that gig, 2) Leave the gig, 3) Follow the rule.

It's the reality, and none of them are really good options.


Well, I suspect that three things control the reality on this topic.

location, location, location..

That being said, Las Vegas has a "Group Title" listed as "Casino Host".
Many Vegas casinos use this employee group as a KJ.
Agreed it's not everywhere.
But, it does exist..


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:04 pm 
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I happily accept tips for a job well done all the time. I also put out a tip jar at all my weekly venues. By putting the tip jar out it also stops people from coming up to me and putting money in my hands or pockets. I do not take bribes and the tip jar actually helps with that.

I, like most, would never split my tips with the servers, bartenders, etc. I'm an independent contractor and not an employee. If the owner insists on this type of scenario then I wouldn't take the gig. I feel the same when an owner wants to give me a percentage of what they ring for the night as pay.

I charge the same fee at my gigs no matter whether they ring 10,000.00 or 1000.00. If I bring the people in the bar for karaoke then it's up to the staff to make them spend money. I mean I always tell folks to patronize the establishment, etc. but after that it's up to the staff.

Tips are a significant portion of my income. This will not change anytime soon.

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