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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:12 pm 
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As a long time karaoke enthusiast, I would rather hear the worst singer(customer) than hear the host sing a song, even if the host is the best singer in the bar. The host is being paid to host. He isn't being paid to sing and take a spot from a paying customer. Most KJ's get into the business so they can get to sing more often. They are very selfish people. If you want to sing; go to someone else's show.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:55 pm 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
Think of it this way, even though I love to sing, I would not take myself out of the rotation after the rotation reached the 8 singer mark not counting me if that was the primaryreason for my singing, my reasons for singing are totally valid and have no basis of whether I am singing just to hear myself sing. I would totally insist on singing every rotation no matter how many singers I had in the rotation. That said, my last show only had four singers other than myself due to I believe that some of the singers are actually ticked off that the mental health social center that I do a twice a month show at is closing next month due to a false claim of duplication of services because the other center that claims to be a social center despite their either transferring social staff to other parts of the agency or laying them off or even changing the job title of what used to be the Social Coordinator. No social staff, maybe an hour and fifteen minutes and an occasional free lunch and party doesn't make them a social center. Unfortunately it means that my next show on September 15th will be my last. I will only allow myself to move my shows over to the so called other center for the price of $50 an hour paid by cash before I set up because I used to do it for a quarter of that paid by check and I ended up telling them one time that if they didn't have the check ready to give to me before the gig that I wouldn't be even setting up for the show. The next show, no check so I told them that there's no show. Haven't played there since. I doubt that I ever will again based on my requirements for setting up.


There's nothing funnier than a host trying to justify their spot in the rotation when they aren't even a good singer in the first place. They have a false sense of their talent and they really think that they can sing songs by Journey and they can't carry a tune in a bucket. Eventually they put up a song on the singer's showcase and you realize that they have no clue just had badly they sing. LOL Not mentioning any names.......but


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:35 pm 
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Karaoke Croaker wrote:
As a long time karaoke enthusiast, I would rather hear the worst singer(customer) than hear the host sing a song, even if the host is the best singer in the bar. The host is being paid to host. He isn't being paid to sing and take a spot from a paying customer. Most KJ's get into the business so they can get to sing more often. They are very selfish people. If you want to sing; go to someone else's show.

Amen!

As I've said before, a host has no business including themselves in the rotation. They can try to justify their singing all they want but it's just BS. And I agree with you, they are selfish people.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:46 pm 
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Karaoke Croaker wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
Think of it this way, even though I love to sing, I would not take myself out of the rotation after the rotation reached the 8 singer mark not counting me if that was the primaryreason for my singing, my reasons for singing are totally valid and have no basis of whether I am singing just to hear myself sing. I would totally insist on singing every rotation no matter how many singers I had in the rotation. That said, my last show only had four singers other than myself due to I believe that some of the singers are actually ticked off that the mental health social center that I do a twice a month show at is closing next month due to a false claim of duplication of services because the other center that claims to be a social center despite their either transferring social staff to other parts of the agency or laying them off or even changing the job title of what used to be the Social Coordinator. No social staff, maybe an hour and fifteen minutes and an occasional free lunch and party doesn't make them a social center. Unfortunately it means that my next show on September 15th will be my last. I will only allow myself to move my shows over to the so called other center for the price of $50 an hour paid by cash before I set up because I used to do it for a quarter of that paid by check and I ended up telling them one time that if they didn't have the check ready to give to me before the gig that I wouldn't be even setting up for the show. The next show, no check so I told them that there's no show. Haven't played there since. I doubt that I ever will again based on my requirements for setting up.


There's nothing funnier than a host trying to justify their spot in the rotation when they aren't even a good singer in the first place. They have a false sense of their talent and they really think that they can sing songs by Journey and they can't carry a tune in a bucket. Eventually they put up a song on the singer's showcase and you realize that they have no clue just had badly they sing. LOL Not mentioning any names.......but

Hey, guess what. If a host did not include themselves in the rotation, the show would still go on and people would still have a good time, maybe even a better time. So, any host that thinks that they "need" to be part of the show in order to have a good night is delusional.

Of course, this is just my professional opinion.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:10 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
Hey, guess what. If a host did not include themselves in the rotation, the show would still go on and people would still have a good time, maybe even a better time. So, any host that thinks that they "need" to be part of the show in order to have a good night is delusional.

Of course, this is just my professional opinion.



8) Yes this is your professional opinion, what does a professional opinion amount to? You are getting paid to do a job, the definition of what a professional is. Just because a person gets paid doesn't make them a professional, it just means the person paying them is careless with their money. To a certain extend we are all delusional that is why there are karaoke contests, to a certain extent none of us has a true unbiased opinion of our talents or the lack there of. I don't deny that some hosts love to sing, that they love karaoke is that so bad? If you are doing a job and you don't love it aren't you just going through the motions? Every host has the right I feel to run their show as they see fit. If they fail then it is on them no one else.


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:16 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
I don't deny that some hosts love to sing, that they love karaoke is that so bad? If you are doing a job and your don't love it aren't you just going through the motions?

I also love to sing. But I don't do it at my shows. I am not there to sing. I am there to host and to make sure that everyone who came out to sing will get to do so as much as possible.

The delusional part is that so many hosts think that people actually want to hear them sing all night. Wrong.

Two years ago I took over a venue from a previous host who was terrible. The owner wanted me but at the time I was doing another gig that night (Thursday). Anyway, I left that gig (for personal reasons) and took over. In the first couple of weeks of me being there, Thursday night sales went up by 38%. The owner was extremely happy with me and told me, I'm glad you don't sing. The other guy sang all night long and we got a lot of complaints about it.

So, if you think that everyone wants to hear the host sing... think again. If you think that singers want to wait any longer to sing than they have to... think again. No host should include themselves in the rotation, period.


Last edited by Alan B on Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:25 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
I also love to sing. But I don't do it at my shows. I am not there to sing. I am there to host and to make sure that everyone who came out to sing will get to do so as much as possible.


8) So you do your show the way you want, can't you allow others to do their show the way they want? You feel that you have the right to superimpose your methods on others. To do this destroys creativity and allowing others to be themselves, karaoke is about expression not conformity. Karaoke has always been ART first to me, and if it doesn't go in the direction I wanted that is ok because someone's vision was different from mine. If we are going to goose step with everyone else, then where is our humanity?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:38 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Alan B wrote:
I also love to sing. But I don't do it at my shows. I am not there to sing. I am there to host and to make sure that everyone who came out to sing will get to do so as much as possible.


8) So you do your show the way you want, can't you allow others to do their show the way they want? You feel that you have the right to superimpose your methods on others. To do this destroys creativity and allowing others to be themselves, karaoke is about expression not conformity. Karaoke has always been ART first to me, and if it doesn't go in the direction I wanted that is ok because someone's vision was different from mine. If we are going to goose step with everyone else, then where is our humanity?

Why can't you guys come clean and call it for what it is? Instead of trying to justify including yourself in the rotation and being part of the show with every lame BS excuse, why can't you just be honest?

I would have a lot more respect for you if you just said, "I make myself part of the show because I like to sing". I still won't agree with that but at least I can respect your honesty.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:45 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Alan B wrote:
I also love to sing. But I don't do it at my shows. I am not there to sing. I am there to host and to make sure that everyone who came out to sing will get to do so as much as possible.


karaoke is about expression not conformity.

I totally agree with that, karaoke is about expression. Expression for the people who came out to sing. Not the person who's supposed to be acting as a host. If the host feels the need to express him or herself, there's nothing wrong with that. Just do it at someone else's show.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:54 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
I totally agree with that, karaoke is about expression. Expression for the people who came out to sing. Not the person who's supposed to be acting as a host. If the host feels the need to express him or herself, there's nothing wrong with that. Just do it at someone else's show.



8) If you totally agree that karaoke is about expression, then you also have to totally accept that expression extends to the hosts that provide that means of expression. That means that the host can decide the type of karaoke environment he or she creates, they are providing the canvass and the paints so the patrons can create their own individual masterpieces. If the host decides to make a painting as well caught up in the moment of creative energy I don't think they should be penalized.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:37 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Alan B wrote:
I totally agree with that, karaoke is about expression. Expression for the people who came out to sing. Not the person who's supposed to be acting as a host. If the host feels the need to express him or herself, there's nothing wrong with that. Just do it at someone else's show.



8) If you totally agree that karaoke is about expression, then you also have to totally accept that expression extends to the hosts that provide that means of expression. That means that the host can decide the type of karaoke environment he or she creates, they are providing the canvass and the paints so the patrons can create their own individual masterpieces. If the host decides to make a painting as well caught up in the moment of creative energy I don't think they should be penalized.

That was beautiful. Just beautiful. Equating canvases and paints to singers and hosts. Nice. :)

Now, let's take a look at your last line:

If the host decides to make a painting (translation: If the host decides to sing)
as well caught up in the moment of creative energy (translation: because he really wants to sing)
I don't think they should be penalized.

You're not being penalized. You're just not putting yourself in a very good light with a lot of your singers.

See, the thing is so many of you think that your customers want nothing more than to hear you sing all night and be part of the show. But the reality is that they do not. Trust me, they do not. They'll get by just fine without you being in the rotation.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:06 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
Karaoke Croaker wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
Think of it this way, even though I love to sing, I would not take myself out of the rotation after the rotation reached the 8 singer mark not counting me if that was the primaryreason for my singing, my reasons for singing are totally valid and have no basis of whether I am singing just to hear myself sing. I would totally insist on singing every rotation no matter how many singers I had in the rotation. That said, my last show only had four singers other than myself due to I believe that some of the singers are actually ticked off that the mental health social center that I do a twice a month show at is closing next month due to a false claim of duplication of services because the other center that claims to be a social center despite their either transferring social staff to other parts of the agency or laying them off or even changing the job title of what used to be the Social Coordinator. No social staff, maybe an hour and fifteen minutes and an occasional free lunch and party doesn't make them a social center. Unfortunately it means that my next show on September 15th will be my last. I will only allow myself to move my shows over to the so called other center for the price of $50 an hour paid by cash before I set up because I used to do it for a quarter of that paid by check and I ended up telling them one time that if they didn't have the check ready to give to me before the gig that I wouldn't be even setting up for the show. The next show, no check so I told them that there's no show. Haven't played there since. I doubt that I ever will again based on my requirements for setting up.


There's nothing funnier than a host trying to justify their spot in the rotation when they aren't even a good singer in the first place. They have a false sense of their talent and they really think that they can sing songs by Journey and they can't carry a tune in a bucket. Eventually they put up a song on the singer's showcase and you realize that they have no clue just had badly they sing. LOL Not mentioning any names.......but

Hey, guess what. If a host did not include themselves in the rotation, the show would still go on and people would still have a good time, maybe even a better time. So, any host that thinks that they "need" to be part of the show in order to have a good night is delusional.

Of course, this is just my professional opinion.

Despite my liking to sing, I would rather end up at my shows singing only one song for the night. That would be what I call a great night. However where I am, for the most part, having that kind of night is almost impossible to get. Most of the places that I have been serving the large crowd comes late due to being in the service industry themselves. I don't know, I just may experience it at the new gig that I am about to start.
Guess part of why I feel like a host needs to sing at least the first song is there's always going to be a chance of having someone who has never been to a karaoke show before and doesn't know what it's all about. I always start out with a speel about for those of you who are new to this, it's pretty simple, look through the Songbook and locate say your favorite artist from growing up, find a song that you know the vocal melody to, select it and submit it into the system. We use remote requests, meaning that if you have a smartphone, you can either download SongbookDB search tool from your app store or use your browser to go to the SongbookDB website. Type in (here I give them my songbook code ), and either login using your Facebook account or create a free account on the app. Type in the info or use the browse feature. Find a song click sing, set the key you want it in, add someone who you want to sing with if you so choose, if you can't find the song you want to sing pick another one and then in the note to DJ type in please get artist name dash song title so that I can check if it is available for download at the show, hit send and the last step - come up to the mic when you hear your name called. When the song starts the words on the screen are going to change color when it's time to sing them and that's all you need to know to sing karaoke. Here I will demonstrate how it's done. So I not only use it as a sound check, I use it as a teaching moment.

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Last edited by DannyG2006 on Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:17 pm 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
Alan B wrote:
Karaoke Croaker wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
Think of it this way, even though I love to sing, I would not take myself out of the rotation after the rotation reached the 8 singer mark not counting me if that was the primaryreason for my singing, my reasons for singing are totally valid and have no basis of whether I am singing just to hear myself sing. I would totally insist on singing every rotation no matter how many singers I had in the rotation. That said, my last show only had four singers other than myself due to I believe that some of the singers are actually ticked off that the mental health social center that I do a twice a month show at is closing next month due to a false claim of duplication of services because the other center that claims to be a social center despite their either transferring social staff to other parts of the agency or laying them off or even changing the job title of what used to be the Social Coordinator. No social staff, maybe an hour and fifteen minutes and an occasional free lunch and party doesn't make them a social center. Unfortunately it means that my next show on September 15th will be my last. I will only allow myself to move my shows over to the so called other center for the price of $50 an hour paid by cash before I set up because I used to do it for a quarter of that paid by check and I ended up telling them one time that if they didn't have the check ready to give to me before the gig that I wouldn't be even setting up for the show. The next show, no check so I told them that there's no show. Haven't played there since. I doubt that I ever will again based on my requirements for setting up.


There's nothing funnier than a host trying to justify their spot in the rotation when they aren't even a good singer in the first place. They have a false sense of their talent and they really think that they can sing songs by Journey and they can't carry a tune in a bucket. Eventually they put up a song on the singer's showcase and you realize that they have no clue just had badly they sing. LOL Not mentioning any names.......but

Hey, guess what. If a host did not include themselves in the rotation, the show would still go on and people would still have a good time, maybe even a better time. So, any host that thinks that they "need" to be part of the show in order to have a good night is delusional.

Of course, this is just my professional opinion.

Despite my liking to sing, I would rather end up at my shows singing only one song for the night. That would be what I call a great night. However where I am, for the most part, having that kind of night is almost impossible to get. Most of the places that I have been serving the large crowd comes late due to being in the service industry themselves. I don't know, I just may experience it at the new gig that I am about to start.

Good luck with your new gig. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:22 pm 
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Here's some truth for you, Alan. I sing at my shows, because I HATE singing at the other shows in the area. WHY?? I have much better equipment, and I know how to run sound. The others in my area make you sound like you are in a can. The music stabs you in the ears, and the mics sound like they are under water. No thanks!! You tell me to sing at another show. I WOULD if I could fins a decent one!!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:14 pm 
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Alan B wrote:

...
...

Look at it like this...

A rotation consisting of 20 singers, with an average time of 3:30 minutes per song means that you'll sing approximately once every hour. If I was included in that rotation of 20 singers, and sang 5 times during a five hour show, I would have cut the show by approximately 18 minutes. Meaning I just took away 18 minutes of singing time from 5 singers. Yup, 5 singers are not going to sing because of my selfish <span style=font-size:10px><i>(@$%&#!)</i></span>.

Is this really putting your customers first? I don't think so.

...
...

One more thing --
...
...
... There is not one valid reason why a host should be singing, unless asked to do a duet. Singing in the rotation is NOT putting your customers first.

The next time you have a rotation of 20, 25, or 30 singers ask them if they're OK with you singing in each round. I have, and the consensus is they don't like it. I know that a lot of you pull yourself out after so many people but some of you don't.



Well, as for putting the Customer first (as you stated), I have. Regardless of whether I sang in a Rotation or not, I have never taken any singing time away from the rest. I have never ended a show which I ran until I have finished the Rotation (even going as much as 45 minutes over the time the show was supposed to end, and not charging extra for that). Anyone that was on the list to sing in the Rotation, WILL SING until the Rotation has completed.

As for your comment (in red) about a rotation of 20-30 people waiting to sing, and the KJ is still including himself in the Rotation.... THAT'S NOT US!!! I am not going to go back and re-read everyone's posts, but I believe all of us said similar things... that we remove ourselves from the Rotation when it grows to enough people to sustain it on its own... the magic number being anywhere between 3-7 singers... NOT 20-30.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:42 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
so you are calling us all liars for saying our shows are successful too? because they obviously can not be since we sing.

I never said you can't have a successful show unless you don't sing. I'm saying that I think it's wrong for a host to take a spot in the rotation. There is no reason for it, period!

in your opinion, all of our successful shows say otherwise.

Alan B wrote:
I believe that a host who includes themselves into the rotation is just looking for the attention they so desperately desire. The only ones who should be getting attention are the people who came out to sing. Karaoke night is about the singers, not the host, although many of you disagree with that. I just don't understand why you guys feel you have to make yourself part of the show.

do you set up on stage?

Alan B wrote:
Why am I getting people from other shows where the host included himself into the rotation? Why have these same people told me that they didn't like that the host sang?

why am i getting singers from other shows where the host doesn't include himself into the rotation and people telling me they don't care if the host sings? or will you call me a liar?

Alan B wrote:
I am not making this stuff up. Singers do care. I am a singer too. And I've walked out of shows where the host included himself into the rotation even though there were enough singers where it wasn't necessary. But I know that many of you can't see that or just won't care.

i'm not making this stuff up, singers don't care. i'm a singer too and i have never walked out of a show because the host included himself in the rotation. and all but 1 here agrees.

Alan B wrote:
But the question I have is why? If your singers are so important to you and they'll be able to sing more by not including yourself in the rotation, then why do it?

2 songs....you are blowing your top over 2 songs. i get 2 songs in a night at most, and you are calling me selfish and saying i don't care at all about my singers. they beg to differ, the bars beg to differ, and my reputation begs to differ.

Alan B wrote:
Look, I can even accept singing the first song to start off the show to set the momentum or to check the sound but that's as far as I'll budge. The reason I'm so passionate about this subject is because there are many hosts that include themselves in every rotation whether they have 3 singers or 30 singers. They have taken advantage and abused the privilege of being a host at the expense of their customers. And that is just not right.
Alan B wrote:
you should be mad at those singing with 3 in the rotation. they are taking more than 10 songs from their singers, the hosts with 30 in the rotation will sing at most 2 songs...you are more mad about losing 2 songs than 10...you need to re-evaluate your thought process

Alan B wrote:
(ok, bring on the hate mail)

says the author of most of the hate mail on this post.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:12 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:


Alan B wrote:
But the question I have is why? If your singers are so important to you and they'll be able to sing more by not including yourself in the rotation, then why do it?

2 songs....you are blowing your top over 2 songs. i get 2 songs in a night at most, and you are calling me selfish and saying i don't care at all about my singers. they beg to differ, the bars beg to differ, and my reputation begs to differ.

Why can't you answer the question. Whether you sing 2 songs or 20 songs, why are you doing it? Seriously, what is your motive?
Contrary to popular belief, your show will run just fine without any singing from the host.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:16 am 
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Smoothedge69 wrote:
Here's some truth for you, Alan. I sing at my shows, because I HATE singing at the other shows in the area. WHY?? I have much better equipment, and I know how to run sound. The others in my area make you sound like you are in a can. The music stabs you in the ears, and the mics sound like they are under water. No thanks!! You tell me to sing at another show. I WOULD if I could fins a decent one!!

Thank you Smooth. You are the only one so far that has answered this question honestly. I still disagree that a host shouldn't sing at their shows but I appreciate your honesty.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:41 am 
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Here's the solution...

For those of you who must sing and fulfill the need for self gratification, start 15 minutes early where you are the only singer. This way, you can get your singing fix, and you won't have to include yourself in the rotation taking away any time from your customers. You should be able to sing at least 5 consecutive songs and it won't interfere with the show.

Now, if you still feel that you must sing during the show right along with your singers, proves that you're just looking for attention.


Last edited by Alan B on Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Alan B wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:


Alan B wrote:
But the question I have is why? If your singers are so important to you and they'll be able to sing more by not including yourself in the rotation, then why do it?

2 songs....you are blowing your top over 2 songs. i get 2 songs in a night at most, and you are calling me selfish and saying i don't care at all about my singers. they beg to differ, the bars beg to differ, and my reputation begs to differ.

Why can't you answer the question. Whether you sing 2 songs or 20 songs, why are you doing it? Seriously, what is your motive?
Contrary to popular belief, your show will run just fine without any singing from the host.

my motive? to redirect the mood of the night, to move things in a certain direction just like you do playing dj songs, or to be part of the night with my loyal singers.
contrary to your belief, your show will run just fine with singing from the host.
and we come back to "if it's not my way, you want to make it ALL ABOUT YOU". and that is a load of (@$%&#!).

care to respond to the rest of the post?

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