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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:05 am 
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I don't even remember the last time it took more than 2 rotations to reach the 8 singer mark.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:22 am 
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Lonman wrote:
Same here, I run a karaoke show, not a hybrid karaoke/dj show.

So do I. I get enough people that I don't have to play filler music but I'm just saying would I would do to break it up so the same three singers aren't singing every 10 minutes.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:36 am 
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Sorry guys, just my 2 cents, but I feel exactly like Alan. In fact, I don't remember the last time I sang at any of my shows. I guess I must be blessed because I have always started a show with no less than 10 singers. I've had customers beg me to sing a song but I just tell them politely that I rather hear them sing. I tell them hearing them sing and watching them enjoy themselves is all the fun I need. If they keep asking I'll tell them if I want to sing I can sing at home so turn in more songs so I can listen to more awesome singing. By this time they know I won't budge and they'll turn in more requests lol

I'll never tell a host how to run their show. If they want to sing, it's their show! For me, just like Alan, I feel it should be all about the customers. After all, they came out to sing, drink, eat, and be merry not hear me sing and wait any longer than necessary to sing. I came out to make sure they do just that!

Cheers! :beermates: :beermates:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:49 pm 
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Think of it this way, even though I love to sing, I would not take myself out of the rotation after the rotation reached the 8 singer mark not counting me if that was the primaryreason for my singing, my reasons for singing are totally valid and have no basis of whether I am singing just to hear myself sing. I would totally insist on singing every rotation no matter how many singers I had in the rotation. That said, my last show only had four singers other than myself due to I believe that some of the singers are actually ticked off that the mental health social center that I do a twice a month show at is closing next month due to a false claim of duplication of services because the other center that claims to be a social center despite their either transferring social staff to other parts of the agency or laying them off or even changing the job title of what used to be the Social Coordinator. No social staff, maybe an hour and fifteen minutes and an occasional free lunch and party doesn't make them a social center. Unfortunately it means that my next show on September 15th will be my last. I will only allow myself to move my shows over to the so called other center for the price of $50 an hour paid by cash before I set up because I used to do it for a quarter of that paid by check and I ended up telling them one time that if they didn't have the check ready to give to me before the gig that I wouldn't be even setting up for the show. The next show, no check so I told them that there's no show. Haven't played there since. I doubt that I ever will again based on my requirements for setting up.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:31 pm 
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It's been more than 12 years since i haven't had close to 20 singers signed up with songs entered 30 minutes before my start time. During the summer I run between 20 to 28 in rotation. In the winter 25 to 40.

I SING one or two songs every show. I have never had a complaint about me singing.... occasionally, and almost always to boost the mood.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:57 pm 
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8) However you decide to run your show it is up to the host period. If you are having a good time, if your venue is full and things are working to the point you enjoy your job, then you have the best of all worlds. Just remember that when you are riding high and everything is working that things can change in a heart beat and bring you back to earth. That the one constant with any job is the fact that everything is subject to a ever changing environment, nothing stays constant for very long as a rule.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:41 pm 
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If you want to sing, at your own show, have at it, as long as you aren't a hog. I know a guy, down here, that throws himself in any time he feels the urge. He doesn't get much business, though. That being said, I do not think that those of us who DO sing, should be looked down upon like we are nothing but hacks. I do not appreciate that, in the least. Like MTNKaraoke, I run a good show, get good crowds, both in singers and nonsingers, everyone has fun, and the bars do well on my nights. I must be doing something right.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:50 am 
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Alan B wrote:
if I only have 3 or 4 singers I would break it up with some dance music in between. For example, 1 rotation and then 2 or 3 songs and then start a new rotation. But I will not sing. Dance music works great. Gives the singers a break as well as the customers not have to listen to the same ones over and over every 15 minutes.
What?!

Seriously, after everything you said about maximizing your singers turns, even to the point of berating the rest of us, you undermine all your points by confessing you STOP karaoke for dance music breaks even when you have 4 singers? This is what I was talking about. This is where you should be singing. You can give the other customers a break from the same 4 voices, but don't give them a break from karaoke, because you are there to promote karaoke. You are paid to provide karaoke even, and especially when, you are low on singers. You should be recruiting those others to get them singing by picking up the mic and belting a song that will snare them and draw them into the fun. New people walking in the door should immediately know it's karaoke happening right now.

STOPPING karaoke at a karaoke show with 4 singers, and you dare to call someone else unprofessional? You're the one that's unbelievable. :angry:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:38 am 
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The absolute only time that I have or will play non karaoke music is if I start a show with zero requests and I can't remember when the last time that ever happened. If you take DJ music breaks on a regular basis and don't advertise it your advertisements are ripe for you possibly being sued for false advertising, although I doubt anyone would waste money doing so.
The shows where I played DJ music didn't last long because the bars and I were in total agreement that I wasn't providing the service that I was hired to do. I've been working the same gig for three or four years and I have yet to play any non karaoke music and I doubt that I ever will.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:07 am 
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Elementary Penguin wrote:
Alan B wrote:
if I only have 3 or 4 singers I would break it up with some dance music in between. For example, 1 rotation and then 2 or 3 songs and then start a new rotation. But I will not sing. Dance music works great. Gives the singers a break as well as the customers not have to listen to the same ones over and over every 15 minutes.
What?!

Seriously, after everything you said about maximizing your singers turns, even to the point of berating the rest of us, you undermine all your points by confessing you STOP karaoke for dance music breaks even when you have 4 singers? This is what I was talking about. This is where you should be singing. You can give the other customers a break from the same 4 voices, but don't give them a break from karaoke, because you are there to promote karaoke. You are paid to provide karaoke even, and especially when, you are low on singers. You should be recruiting those others to get them singing by picking up the mic and belting a song that will snare them and draw them into the fun. New people walking in the door should immediately know it's karaoke happening right now.

STOPPING karaoke at a karaoke show with 4 singers, and you dare to call someone else unprofessional? You're the one that's unbelievable. :angry:

Let's be clear. I have NEVER had a show with 3 or 4 singers. I usually have between 10 and 12 signed up at the start of my show. I have NEVER had to play filler music because of lack of singers. With that said...

What I said was "IF" I ever had only 3 or 4 singers, I would break it up with some music in between. Sorry, but no one wants to listen to the same 3 people sing all night long. Well maybe if they were exceptional singers.

And anyway, that has NOTHING to do with a host including themselves in the rotation. Like I said, a million times; including yourself in the rotation indicates that you don't really care about your singers. After all, why would you want to take a spot in the rotation and rob them of valuable singing time? You wouldn't, unless it's all about you.

Now, I have never experienced it but there may be times that some of you have only 3 or 4 singers. Actually, I know quite a few bars where that amount is the norm. And while I make it about my singers, I would no way in hell let the same 3 people continuously sing all night long. People don't want to hear it. The customers in the bar don't want to hear it. The owners don't want to hear it. And I don't want to hear it.

You would be very "UNPROFESSIONAL" if you allowed it to continue and not offer some relief by mixing in some music. A true professional will get that. A karaoke singer, which is what so many of you are, will not.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:23 pm 
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I actually have no problem with the host playing DJ music during a show as long as it's part of their advertising. That way the venue's customers can make an informed decision on whether or not to even come to the show. Some people are there because they just want to sing and a karaoke / DJ show might not be what they are looking for while others really don't care whether you play some DJ music from time to time. I get that. I am probably going to have to replace my adversion to taking a DJ break because I recently received a heads up that a friend of my friend whose show I go to on Friday nights is interested in getting karaoke in his American Legion post. He's used to the style of karaoke and DJ that my friend does. I plan on insisting on the advertising to read Karaoke/DJ night instead of just karaoke so that I can provide as close to what he's used to at his venue. As long as the people who are coming into the venue know what to expect, playing both a mixture of karaoke and DJ music doesn't make you less a professional as long as you know just how much of either to play. I have always erred on the side of giving my singers priority over DJ music because normally if I am going out to karaoke, I am looking to sing as much as I can when I am on my own time. When I am running my show, I am content with only singing the first song if that's all the songs that I get for the night.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:40 pm 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
I actually have no problem with the host playing DJ music during a show as long as it's part of their advertising. That way the venue's customers can make an informed decision on whether or not to even come to the show. Some people are there because they just want to sing and a karaoke / DJ show might not be what they are looking for while others really don't care whether you play some DJ music from time to time. I get that. I am probably going to have to replace my adversion to taking a DJ break because I recently received a heads up that a friend of my friend whose show I go to on Friday nights is interested in getting karaoke in his American Legion post. He's used to the style of karaoke and DJ that my friend does. I plan on insisting on the advertising to read Karaoke/DJ night instead of just karaoke so that I can provide as close to what he's used to at his venue. As long as the people who are coming into the venue know what to expect, playing both a mixture of karaoke and DJ music doesn't make you less a professional as long as you know just how much of either to play. I have always erred on the side of giving my singers priority over DJ music because normally if I am going out to karaoke, I am looking to sing as much as I can when I am on my own time. When I am running my show, I am content with only singing the first song if that's all the songs that I get for the night.

Danny, I wouldn't change it. Advertise it as a karaoke night. After all, that's what it's supposed to be.

We all know roughly how many singers we're going to have at our shows each week. But, if by some chance you have a night where there's hardly anybody there, then it's only appropriate to play DJ music. But you're never going to know what kind of night you're going to have until you're there. If you advertise at Karaoke/DJ, even though you may have 20 singers that night, there are going to be some people wanting dance music.

So, personally I wouldn't change it unless your plan is to do both Karaoke and DJ music. Otherwise, just advertise karaoke as always and if it's that slow, do what you have to do.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:38 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
And anyway, that has NOTHING to do with a host including themselves in the rotation. Like I said, a million times; including yourself in the rotation indicates that you don't really care about your singers. After all, why would you want to take a spot in the rotation and rob them of valuable singing time? You wouldn't, unless it's all about you.
So instead of singing to break up a short round and keeping it karaoke (thus 'robbing them of their valuable singing time" as you just put it), you'd play regular music instead (no longer keeping it just karaoke) thus 'robbing them of valuable singing time" anyway????

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:14 pm 
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[quote="Alan B"][quote="DannyG2006"]I actually have no problem with the host playing DJ music during a show as long as it's part of their advertising. That way the venue's customers can make an informed decision on whether or not to even come to the show. Some people are there because they just want to sing and a karaoke / DJ show might not be what they are looking for while others really don't care whether you play some DJ music from time to time. I get that. I am probably going to have to replace my adversion to taking a DJ break because I recently received a heads up that a friend of my friend whose show I go to on Friday nights is interested in getting karaoke in his American Legion post. He's used to the style of karaoke and DJ that my friend does. I plan on insisting on the advertising to read Karaoke/DJ night instead of just karaoke so that I can provide as close to what he's used to at his venue. As long as the people who are coming into the venue know what to expect, playing both a mixture of karaoke and DJ music doesn't make you less a professional as long as you know just how much of either to play. I have always erred on the side of giving my singers priority over DJ music because normally if I am going out to karaoke, I am looking to sing as much as I can when I am on my own time. When I am running my show, I am content with only singing the first song if that's all the songs that I get for the night.[/quote]
Danny, I wouldn't change it. Advertise it as a karaoke night. After all, that's what it's supposed to be.

We all know roughly how many singers we're going to have at our shows each week. But, if by some chance you have a night where there's hardly anybody there, then it's only appropriate to play DJ music. But you're never going to know what kind of night you're going to have until you're there. If you advertise at Karaoke/DJ, even though you may have 20 singers that night, there are going to be some people wanting dance music.

So, personally I wouldn't change it unless your plan is to do both Karaoke and DJ music. Otherwise, just advertise karaoke as always and if it's that slow, do what you have to do.[/quote]
Alan, I may not have to change anything in my style. I just got off the phone with the friend who referred me to the venue and apparently they are replacing the hosts that they use to have, one intentionally because of problems with her and the other just basically left when the one who they chose to get rid of was let go. Possibly because he was probably using her system for the show. But it's primarily a karaoke crowd that likes to sing. I am probably only going to get one song in but since I am hosting the show, I don't mind because like you said Alan, I am not there to sing just to facilitate the flow of the show. I may not even have to play any DJ music which is fine by me because I really hate to have to set up playlists before a show even though I do just in case of having no singers. If I have singers, they get priority over DJ music period.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:32 am 
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Lonman wrote:
Alan B wrote:
And anyway, that has NOTHING to do with a host including themselves in the rotation. Like I said, a million times; including yourself in the rotation indicates that you don't really care about your singers. After all, why would you want to take a spot in the rotation and rob them of valuable singing time? You wouldn't, unless it's all about you.
So instead of singing to break up a short round and keeping it karaoke (thus 'robbing them of their valuable singing time" as you just put it), you'd play regular music instead (no longer keeping it just karaoke) thus 'robbing them of valuable singing time" anyway????

If you only had 3 singers the entire night (not very likely but just go with it), and even if you included yourself into the rotation making it 4 singers, would you still do just karaoke? Or would you break it up with some music in between? I would choose the latter.

There is no way I would have only 3 or 4 people sing continuously. Especially if they were not very good singers. It's bad enough listening to terrible singers in every rotation but to listen to them continuously all night long??? No, f'n way. We don't want people walking out of the bar. So, in this case, filler music IS necessary. It would be very unprofessional not to do so.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:21 am 
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Yep singing. Guess I've been unprofessional for 25+ years now and will continue to do so.
If they come to sing, they get to sing...valuable singing time.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:45 am 
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Alan B wrote:
Lonman wrote:
Alan B wrote:
And anyway, that has NOTHING to do with a host including themselves in the rotation. Like I said, a million times; including yourself in the rotation indicates that you don't really care about your singers. After all, why would you want to take a spot in the rotation and rob them of valuable singing time? You wouldn't, unless it's all about you.
So instead of singing to break up a short round and keeping it karaoke (thus 'robbing them of their valuable singing time" as you just put it), you'd play regular music instead (no longer keeping it just karaoke) thus 'robbing them of valuable singing time" anyway????

If you only had 3 singers the entire night (not very likely but just go with it), and even if you included yourself into the rotation making it 4 singers, would you still do just karaoke? Or would you break it up with some music in between? I would choose the latter.

There is no way I would have only 3 or 4 people sing continuously. Especially if they were not very good singers. It's bad enough listening to terrible singers in every rotation but to listen to them continuously all night long??? No, f'n way. We don't want people walking out of the bar. So, in this case, filler music IS necessary. It would be very unprofessional not to do so.

my last show at the social center that is closing had 3 singers not counting me, one of my normal singers was recuperating in a nursing home after having a total knee replacement. The show was totally karaoke.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:05 am 
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Lonman wrote:
Yep singing. Guess I've been unprofessional for 25+ years now and will continue to do so.
If they come to sing, they get to sing...valuable singing time.

So you mean to tell me that if you only had 3 singers, you would not break it up with a little music? I had this conversation with the bar owner at one of my venues and he said to break it up with a little music. Remember, not everybody at the bar likes karaoke. It's one thing if all of your singers were really good making it a pleasure to listen to. But a lot of people hate karaoke because of people that can't sing. They're the screamers, whiners and drunks who can't even hold a tune. So, are you telling me that if this was the case, and you had only 3 singers, and they were really bad, you would actually let them sing continuously?

Although I promote karaoke being fun for everyone, this is where I make an exception. No one wants to listen to some screamin' drunks sing over and over and over all night long. Again, if this was the case for you, Lonnie, are you telling me that you would actually let these 3 sing non stop all night?

Personally, if I was a customer at a karaoke bar and this was going on, I would walk out. There has to come a time to break the rules and do what's best for everyone.

I'm not saying not to let them sing. Just not continuously. Look at it like this:

If these same 3 people were in rotation of 25 singers during a typical night, they would be waiting at least an hour to sing a song. Now, if you only had a rotation of 3 people, and after every second rotation you played 15 minutes of DJ music, they're only waiting 15 minutes max to sing again. Which means they're singing a hell of a lot more than if they were in an average 25 singer rotation. So, even with adding filler music, they're not getting screwed. They're actually making out better and singing more.

Like I said, no one wants to listen to the same 3 people sing continuously all night long. That is why we have filler music for occasions like this. And even with the added music, they're making out better. So, there!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:34 am 
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Alan B wrote:
A karaoke host is hired to perform a service. I don't know of any employees of any other service industries that include themselves with the people they serve.


This statement indicates that you equate your entertainment services with the services provided by bartenders, waitstaff and kitchen staff. I can't speak to "any other service industry" because it's a blanket statement that is easily refuted by one simple instance. I'm sure the readers of this thread will have several come to mind.

For the sake of this reply I'll limit my response to the service industry that we're operating in; namely the bar/club/restaurant (food & beverage) industry.

Bluntly: You're comparing apples and oranges.

I am an entertainment services provider, not an employee of a food & beverage provider.

My entertainment policy is built on the concept of inclusion and participation. I want to influence everyone, singers and non-singers alike. I facilitate, I encourage, I demonstrate, I challenge, and I participate, all as part of my effort to create a positive, non-judgmental scenario, one where the singers let go of their inhibitions and enjoy themselves.

Let me be clear, I am not devaluing the staff in any way. I am saying that if you take a moment to consider, you'll realize that the staff show up to work and everything they need to do their job is provided by their employer. They are paid a pittance and rely on their own efforts to garner tips as their greater source of income. Imagine if the bartender had to provide all of the product they serve as well as set up the bar equipment each shift while providing all utensils, glassware, etc. How about if the waitstaff had to provide table linens, place settings, and tableware for themselves and their customers? How about if the kitchen staff had to bring all the ingredients for every dish as well as provide the equipment, utensils and menus? Do you think that their employer could afford to compensate them at the same level as the entertainment? Can you see that this is a false comparison?

My shows ARE about me insofar as they are about me orchestrating and producing the entertainment experience in the manner that works for me and my venues, resulting in repeat business and profit.

My shows ARE about the singers as they are focused on giving the best opportunity to enjoy participating in the event through hosting, sound reinforcement, song selection, and a social dialogue that supports their efforts.

I don't pander to the haters, the song counters, the divas or the judgmental non-singers. If you're one of those people, you can leave. There's plenty of others that are enjoying the show. I don't take it personally. I've left a bar because I didn't like the band, or the food, or the service. I've left a movie because I wasn't entertained.

One thing I can tell you: No one gets robbed. Everyone who is willing to participate has equal opportunity to do so.

The last thing I want is for my venues or the singers to think of me as a button-pusher or an organ-grinder. I want them to feel as if they've made a new friend to do karaoke with.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:49 am 
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MtnKaraoke wrote:
Alan B wrote:
A karaoke host is hired to perform a service. I don't know of any employees of any other service industries that include themselves with the people they serve.



My shows ARE about me insofar as they are about me orchestrating and producing the entertainment experience in the manner that works for me and my venues, resulting in repeat business and profit.

My shows ARE about the singers as they are focused on giving the best opportunity to enjoy participating in the event through hosting, sound reinforcement, song selection, and a social dialogue that supports their efforts.


So with that said, and I do appreciate the above response, I have a question:

Would you not be able to perform any of the functions you talk about above if you didn't sing? Would not singing make you any less of a professional host?

Personally, I feel that everything you stated above can be accomplished without including yourself in the rotation. And I think you know it too.

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