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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:09 pm 
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Anyone know where, if anywhere, you can get Stingray, Karaoke channel (or even Sound Choice) tracks on a custom DISC format? They've been pulled from Customburn.com.


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Stingray tracks can not put out discs because of their licensing. SC sold the tracks to Stingray so no SC custom discs either since they don't even own them anymore.

your best bet if nobody else makes the songs is to make the suggestion for those songs from karaoke.net. there is a thread here under new music requests. they do a great job putting out requested music when licensing is available.

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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
Stingray tracks can not put out discs because of their licensing. SC sold the tracks to Stingray so no SC custom discs either since they don't even own them anymore.


If the use will be personal rather than commercial, an alternative would be to buy the tracks from thekaraokechannel.com. The trick would be to figure out how to convert them to ISO to burn a CD+G from the tracks, but if you were really desperate, it could be done.

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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
your best bet if nobody else makes the songs is to make the suggestion for those songs from karaoke.net. there is a thread here under new music requests. they do a great job putting out requested music when licensing is available.

Or request the song at karaokeversion.com


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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 2:44 pm 
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Thank you for your suggestions folks.

To clarify, the song I was searching for in question was released by both Sound Choice and Chartbuster originally, but the CB/digitrax version does not even come close to the SC one.

My normal port of call would be CustomBurn.com, which had pretty much the entire catalogue on there, under the Karaoke Channel livery (available in both download and disc as with all of their tracks). However, the site was down for "maintenance" for ages and when it resurfaced only Zoom and Sunfly tracks were on offer.

As a result there appears to be nowhere you can get Stingray/Karaoke Channel OR Sound Choice tracks in custom disc form. What I have done for the time being is downloaded the track at the Karaoke Channel site in ZIP format (.mp3 + .CDG files in one) so I at least have the track. This will have to do until disc becomes available again. Annoyingly SR have rebranded their KC tracks and removed the silence at the beginning, but this is a minor inconvenience.


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:13 am 
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I personally gave up on Stingray.
They do offer a nice player app though but as mention, good for "Personal use"


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:35 am 
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Lord Burnstrum wrote:
Annoyingly SR have rebranded their KC tracks and removed the silence at the beginning, but this is a minor inconvenience.


If Harrington gets wind of you using a SR song in your shows, he will sue you!!! That is a big no no!!

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:33 am 
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Smoothedge69 wrote:
If Harrington gets wind of you using a SR song in your shows, he will sue you!!! That is a big no no!!


I'll note for the record that the poster appears to be in the UK. I don't know whether or not Stingray has different terms of use for UK users or whether or not UK law provides for a public performance license for such products. I'm not especially motivated to find out, as I have enough to do on this side of the Atlantic.

My comments about Stingray products in commercial use are limited to the US and Canada.

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Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 4:52 am 
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JimHarrington wrote:
Smoothedge69 wrote:
If Harrington gets wind of you using a SR song in your shows, he will sue you!!! That is a big no no!!


I'll note for the record that the poster appears to be in the UK. I don't know whether or not Stingray has different terms of use for UK users or whether or not UK law provides for a public performance license for such products. I'm not especially motivated to find out, as I have enough to do on this side of the Atlantic.

My comments about Stingray products in commercial use are limited to the US and Canada.

I STILL find it ridiculous that a perfectly good product can't be used in public, ESPECIALLY when the venues pay their PRO fees. The royalties would still be getting paid.

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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 5:14 am 
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Smoothedge69 wrote:
JimHarrington wrote:
Smoothedge69 wrote:
If Harrington gets wind of you using a SR song in your shows, he will sue you!!! That is a big no no!!


I'll note for the record that the poster appears to be in the UK. I don't know whether or not Stingray has different terms of use for UK users or whether or not UK law provides for a public performance license for such products. I'm not especially motivated to find out, as I have enough to do on this side of the Atlantic.

My comments about Stingray products in commercial use are limited to the US and Canada.

I STILL find it ridiculous that a perfectly good product can't be used in public, ESPECIALLY when the venues pay their PRO fees. The royalties would still be getting paid.

Especially when it would be paid for, through download, for example.

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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 6:32 am 
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Smoothedge69 wrote:
I STILL find it ridiculous that a perfectly good product can't be used in public, ESPECIALLY when the venues pay their PRO fees. The royalties would still be getting paid.


Except that the entity that controls this (Stingray) isn't being paid a royalty. The PRO fees don't compensate the owner of the audiovisual work.

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Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:09 am 
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JimHarrington wrote:
Smoothedge69 wrote:
I STILL find it ridiculous that a perfectly good product can't be used in public, ESPECIALLY when the venues pay their PRO fees. The royalties would still be getting paid.


Except that the entity that controls this (Stingray) isn't being paid a royalty. The PRO fees don't compensate the owner of the audiovisual work.



But as you have stated yourself Jim, Karaoke has no performace right AND they have been compensated if the person bought the track in the first place.

Or maybe you are refering to the fact that the copyright to the music track belongs to Stingray and not the publishers like Sony etc?


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:41 pm 
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jclaydon wrote:
But as you have stated yourself Jim, Karaoke has no performace right AND they have been compensated if the person bought the track in the first place.


Actually, I've said the exact opposite of that.

Sound recordings by themselves do not have a public performance right, so you can publicly play any sound recording you like, all day long, as long as (a) you didn't steal it and (b) the owner of any composition rights is compensated (usually through PROs).

But karaoke works are not just sound recordings. They have a visual component, which makes them audiovisual works. Audiovisual works DO have a public performance right. That's why you can't rent or buy a DVD movie and have a public screening. (You need a specific license for that from the owner of the rights.) It's the same with karaoke.

The PROs only represent the owner of the composition copyright. They don't represent the karaoke producer.

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Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:36 am 
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JimHarrington wrote:
jclaydon wrote:
But as you have stated yourself Jim, Karaoke has no performace right AND they have been compensated if the person bought the track in the first place.


Actually, I've said the exact opposite of that.

Sound recordings by themselves do not have a public performance right, so you can publicly play any sound recording you like, all day long, as long as (a) you didn't steal it and (b) the owner of any composition rights is compensated (usually through PROs).

But karaoke works are not just sound recordings. They have a visual component, which makes them audiovisual works. Audiovisual works DO have a public performance right. That's why you can't rent or buy a DVD movie and have a public screening. (You need a specific license for that from the owner of the rights.) It's the same with karaoke.

The PROs only represent the owner of the composition copyright. They don't represent the karaoke producer.


but, Stingray paid the royalties for the rights to make that audiovisual work. they ask $2.00 for it and that covers their cost and a small profit. the difference between personal use and public use rights is with the PRO's, so what exactly is the problem?

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:39 am 
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That's just it: When you're taking about audiovisual works, the difference is more than just what the PROs provide.

Stingray gets $2 for a private-use copy. If you want a public-use copy, that costs more (thousands of dollars, in fact, and that's Stingray's main business). If you could buy public-use copies for $2, Stingray would be out of business in a hurry.

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Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:28 am 
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JimHarrington wrote:
That's just it: When you're taking about audiovisual works, the difference is more than just what the PROs provide.

Stingray gets $2 for a private-use copy. If you want a public-use copy, that costs more (thousands of dollars, in fact, and that's Stingray's main business). If you could buy public-use copies for $2, Stingray would be out of business in a hurry.

Karaoke.net sells their songs for $1.99 per track. How are THEY getting away with it, yet Stingray can't?? You are talking out your rear, if I may be so bold. Karaoke.net's songs are for use in public. So if they can get away with it, why can't Stingray. Who else smells rotten fish, here??

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 12:33 pm 
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Smoothedge69 wrote:
JimHarrington wrote:
That's just it: When you're taking about audiovisual works, the difference is more than just what the PROs provide.

Stingray gets $2 for a private-use copy. If you want a public-use copy, that costs more (thousands of dollars, in fact, and that's Stingray's main business). If you could buy public-use copies for $2, Stingray would be out of business in a hurry.

Karaoke.net sells their songs for $1.99 per track. How are THEY getting away with it, yet Stingray can't?? You are talking out your rear, if I may be so bold. Karaoke.net's songs are for use in public. So if they can get away with it, why can't Stingray. Who else smells rotten fish, here??


Stingray could if they wanted to. They don't want to.

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Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:11 pm 
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JimHarrington wrote:
Smoothedge69 wrote:
JimHarrington wrote:
That's just it: When you're taking about audiovisual works, the difference is more than just what the PROs provide.

Stingray gets $2 for a private-use copy. If you want a public-use copy, that costs more (thousands of dollars, in fact, and that's Stingray's main business). If you could buy public-use copies for $2, Stingray would be out of business in a hurry.

Karaoke.net sells their songs for $1.99 per track. How are THEY getting away with it, yet Stingray can't?? You are talking out your rear, if I may be so bold. Karaoke.net's songs are for use in public. So if they can get away with it, why can't Stingray. Who else smells rotten fish, here??


Stingray could if they wanted to. They don't want to.

If they sold downloads, the SC argument of 1) Play from original disc 2) Get permission 3) Own a GEM or 4) Have a Help licence, becomes less clear when observed playing from a computer and you could be sued. You could then play SC (rebranded KC) from a computer and not be required to meet criteria 1,2,3 or 4. The burden of proof would be more difficult.

CB sold files that were intended to be played on a computer and that is why CB has different rules for playing in public with less fear of legal entanglements. This just my 2 cents worth.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:02 pm 
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JimHarrington wrote:
Smoothedge69 wrote:
JimHarrington wrote:
That's just it: When you're taking about audiovisual works, the difference is more than just what the PROs provide.

Stingray gets $2 for a private-use copy. If you want a public-use copy, that costs more (thousands of dollars, in fact, and that's Stingray's main business). If you could buy public-use copies for $2, Stingray would be out of business in a hurry.

Karaoke.net sells their songs for $1.99 per track. How are THEY getting away with it, yet Stingray can't?? You are talking out your rear, if I may be so bold. Karaoke.net's songs are for use in public. So if they can get away with it, why can't Stingray. Who else smells rotten fish, here??


Stingray could if they wanted to. They don't want to.

"If you could buy public-use copies for $2, Stingray would be out of business in a hurry."
this is what you said, and it's not true.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:21 pm 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
JimHarrington wrote:
Smoothedge69 wrote:
JimHarrington wrote:
That's just it: When you're taking about audiovisual works, the difference is more than just what the PROs provide.

Stingray gets $2 for a private-use copy. If you want a public-use copy, that costs more (thousands of dollars, in fact, and that's Stingray's main business). If you could buy public-use copies for $2, Stingray would be out of business in a hurry.

Karaoke.net sells their songs for $1.99 per track. How are THEY getting away with it, yet Stingray can't?? You are talking out your rear, if I may be so bold. Karaoke.net's songs are for use in public. So if they can get away with it, why can't Stingray. Who else smells rotten fish, here??


Stingray could if they wanted to. They don't want to.

"If you could buy public-use copies for $2, Stingray would be out of business in a hurry."
this is what you said, and it's not true.


Stingray does about $100 million a year on their commercial use business. They just recently did their millionth download after nearly 10 years.

If they allowed public use of their tracks without special licensing, they would be giving away their main source of revenue in exchange for an extremely limited market of professional KJs who pay for music.

And yes, that would put them out of business quickly.

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Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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