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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:49 pm 
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Last night I had 50 singers and the first rotation was 3 1/2 hours long. Good for the bar but bad for the singers.

Here is what happened. There was a hockey game hold up for a 1/2 hour.

The place was full for the game and there were also singers coming in. There were about 5 singers that gave me song slips before the hockey game ended. So they were the first to sing but before each of them had finished singing I had at least 3 slips for each singer already in the rotation. I just kept on adding them to the line up. This means the first singer didn't get to sing again for 3 1/2 hours.

I'm very sure many singers were mad that night. The first 2 singers came up to say goodbye literally 2 songs before they were to sing again. I told them it would be a shame to wait all that time and not stay to sing. They left. Were they mad at me or the situation? I don't know, but it was probably both.

I know for sure they were there for the start of the karaoke. What I don't know is when all the rest of the singers got to the bar. Some could have been there all night and some could have just walked in. I was way too busy to watch the door and with everyone smoking outside it's literally impossible to know who is new and who has been there. Unless they are literally time stamped on the back of their hand when they first enter the bar.

Should I worry about when the first singers got to sing again? I played until 15 minutes before everyone is legally supposed to be out of the bar at 2:30 AM according to the LCB. The first 10-15 singers would have sang a second time if they stayed.

Normally I would try to end a rotation at some point and start mixing in the new singers with the old ones. And that would be because I knew the new singers may have just walked in the bar. As I said last night it was impossible to tell how long anyone was there.

Would anyone have done it differently? Don't forget the hockey game held up the starting time by a half hour. So that only added to their frustration.

There were many singers that never even put slips in all night so the number of singers could have been even higher. Meaning no second rotation at all.

I felt bad for the first singers but I wanted to make sure as many people as humanly possible sang at least one song. The best part is nobody really got mad and said anything to me about it. There was some complaining (asking) about when they would be up again but what can I say.....I just kept on updating the number of singers in the rotation. It's up to 30-35-40-45....

I wouldn't want that many on a regular basis. I hope the frustrated singers understand that it was a special night and not a regular event, I hope.


Last edited by jackadam on Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:04 pm 
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unfortunately you were in a no win situation but it sounds like you did the best you could which is all anyone can ask.

i hate sporting events that fall on a karaoke night, throws everything off

-james


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:15 pm 
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Sounds like you need to add a second night of karaoke.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:41 am 
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I have a singer sign up sheet with a time stamp column. Some of my singers get to the show 2 hours before start time and I am not there yet. So the sign up sheet puts the singer order in their hands.

I have a cut off time to get into the first rotation, and it is by my laptop clock and is set in stone. Anyone that wants to sing after that time will be in the second rotation. It has worked out quite well and my stress levels are way down.

The new singers that show up late will be salted into the second rotation but after the first 10 singers (the really super early arrivers). No one ever gets mad any more and the rotation is in their control for the first round.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:33 am 
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that is unfortunately the problem that happens with a "new singer to the end" style rotation.
my way around that is to stop taking requests for the first round at 9:45.
then anyone giving me a song after 9:45 goes in the second spot, and it's 1 old, 1 new from there.
this way the old singers (there from the beginning) don't get screwed by a never ending round, and new singers get mixed in to get a chance to sing but still wait a bit.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:04 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
that is unfortunately the problem that happens with a "new singer to the end" style rotation.
my way around that is to stop taking requests for the first round at 9:45. then anyone giving me a song after 9:45 goes in the second spot, and it's 1 old, 1 new from there.
this way the old singers (there from the beginning) don't get screwed by a never ending round, and new singers get mixed in to get a chance to sing but still wait a bit.


Have you ever had a situation where?....

Let's say your show starts at 9 PM. You have people that have arrived early (well before the show start time). For the sake of this scenario, you have 15 people that arrived early (it could even be more). Now, add on more people who have just shown up at the start of your show (I'll say another 15 people). All of these people (30 so far) have handed up song slips well before your 9:45 PM cut-off time for the first rotation's end. Now, another 15 people fluttered in between 9 PM and 9:30 PM, and they all handed up song slips before 9:45, and more people are still arriving and handing up their requests before 9:45 PM.

So far, I have given you a count of at least 45 people who have handed up song requests before the 1st rotation has ended (before your 9:45 PM cut-off time to accept more singers within that 1st rotation). Based on the time that these 45 people have handed you their song requests, you might have gotten 9 or 10 singers up so far. 45 people waiting to sing is approximately a 3 hour rotation. Most shows I know of are 4 hours.

What do you do?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:41 am 
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8) There are several things going on here. You need to talk with the venue owner and the bar staff. Your priority should be on proper scheduling. Karaoke should not be on a night when some other event is being held that might delay your start. When I was active in the business I would usually arrive more than an hour before starting time. Naturally I would check out my equipment, get things set up and start taking names. If you do a gig long enough you know your singing patrons get them signed up. Have an agreement with the owner and staff that once you have enough singers to start the rotation, begin then and there. Make sure things like the jukebox for example is cut off, of course. Get with the bar staff particularly because the bartenders can make or break your show, make sure you are all on the same page, and work as a team. Especially in the area of music volume, and working out how to wind down the show at the end. I have found out if you get the basics right then everything falls in place. There are two basic ways to do rotation a strict approach with firm rules, that always worked best for me. There is also the insertion method which I don't really like because it is up to the host to determine how that will work, many singers feel it is unfair, that is your choice though. I hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:24 am 
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cueball wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
that is unfortunately the problem that happens with a "new singer to the end" style rotation.
my way around that is to stop taking requests for the first round at 9:45. then anyone giving me a song after 9:45 goes in the second spot, and it's 1 old, 1 new from there.
this way the old singers (there from the beginning) don't get screwed by a never ending round, and new singers get mixed in to get a chance to sing but still wait a bit.


Have you ever had a situation where?....

Let's say your show starts at 9 PM. You have people that have arrived early (well before the show start time). For the sake of this scenario, you have 15 people that arrived early (it could even be more). Now, add on more people who have just shown up at the start of your show (I'll say another 15 people). All of these people (30 so far) have handed up song slips well before your 9:45 PM cut-off time for the first rotation's end. Now, another 15 people fluttered in between 9 PM and 9:30 PM, and they all handed up song slips before 9:45, and more people are still arriving and handing up their requests before 9:45 PM.

So far, I have given you a count of at least 45 people who have handed up song requests before the 1st rotation has ended (before your 9:45 PM cut-off time to accept more singers within that 1st rotation). Based on the time that these 45 people have handed you their song requests, you might have gotten 9 or 10 singers up so far. 45 people waiting to sing is approximately a 3 hour rotation. Most shows I know of are 4 hours.

What do you do?
I have had that happen to me more than once, and there is no answer, other than ...... proceed with the show.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:49 am 
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8) Most of the shows I fill in for now start way earlier since I don't stay up late as a rule anymore. I usually start at 5 or 6 and go till 9 or 10, after all this is a retirement city and most patrons dislike driving after dark. They also want to be safe at home when the crazies from the restaurants and bars start trying to drive home. I did work last week until midnight but that was a special private party.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:57 am 
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cueball wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
that is unfortunately the problem that happens with a "new singer to the end" style rotation.
my way around that is to stop taking requests for the first round at 9:45. then anyone giving me a song after 9:45 goes in the second spot, and it's 1 old, 1 new from there.
this way the old singers (there from the beginning) don't get screwed by a never ending round, and new singers get mixed in to get a chance to sing but still wait a bit.


Have you ever had a situation where?....

Let's say your show starts at 9 PM. You have people that have arrived early (well before the show start time). For the sake of this scenario, you have 15 people that arrived early (it could even be more). Now, add on more people who have just shown up at the start of your show (I'll say another 15 people). All of these people (30 so far) have handed up song slips well before your 9:45 PM cut-off time for the first rotation's end. Now, another 15 people fluttered in between 9 PM and 9:30 PM, and they all handed up song slips before 9:45, and more people are still arriving and handing up their requests before 9:45 PM.

So far, I have given you a count of at least 45 people who have handed up song requests before the 1st rotation has ended (before your 9:45 PM cut-off time to accept more singers within that 1st rotation). Based on the time that these 45 people have handed you their song requests, you might have gotten 9 or 10 singers up so far. 45 people waiting to sing is approximately a 3 hour rotation. Most shows I know of are 4 hours.

What do you do?

He uses a program that tells him what time the show based on the requests that he has entered in. Now I am just making a guess but I think that once that indicator hits 9:45, he stops entering in the requests and doesn't start entering them until the first few singers have sung.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:24 am 
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We encounter 50+ person rotations in at least 3 venues every single week. (Best problem to have for job security).

This is how we manage it (we use this method at every venue regardless of how busy it is).....

For the first hour or first 15 singers, it is First Come, First Served. After an hour or 15 signs ups, we start bouncing between new and repeat singers. Our hosting software tells us how many minutes of songs are queued up, so we know when to stop taking requests based on how much is in the queue.

One of our venues has had >50 singer queues practically every Saturday night for more than 3 years. They know that they may only get up on stage once if they show up after 10pm. We have had several occasions where you don't get to sing at all if you show up after 10pm even with mixing in new singers.

My advise......if your singers are happy and willing to wait, don't make drastic changes.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:51 am 
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One aspect of this is bringing it out in the open. I have a saying for service staff: People don't mind waiting, but they don't like wondering.

In this case, I probably would have told people it was an unusual situation, and mention the late start. Part of what you're trying to convey is that it's not always like this. The other thing you're trying to convey is that you recognize the long waits, and you agree with the customer. In any situation where a guest is wondering "do they realize how ridiculous this wait is?", it takes a lot of their anger away when you say, "I know the waits are ridiculous tonight." People want to be acknowledged and agreed with, even if they don't get exactly what they want.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:10 pm 
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mrmarog wrote:
I have had that happen to me more than once, and there is no answer, other than ...... proceed with the show.
I could see that happening almost regularly with your show, because you have said there is limited space and people have to make reservations to attend your show.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:16 pm 
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cueball wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
that is unfortunately the problem that happens with a "new singer to the end" style rotation.
my way around that is to stop taking requests for the first round at 9:45. then anyone giving me a song after 9:45 goes in the second spot, and it's 1 old, 1 new from there.
this way the old singers (there from the beginning) don't get screwed by a never ending round, and new singers get mixed in to get a chance to sing but still wait a bit.


Have you ever had a situation where?....

Let's say your show starts at 9 PM. You have people that have arrived early (well before the show start time). For the sake of this scenario, you have 15 people that arrived early (it could even be more). Now, add on more people who have just shown up at the start of your show (I'll say another 15 people). All of these people (30 so far) have handed up song slips well before your 9:45 PM cut-off time for the first rotation's end. Now, another 15 people fluttered in between 9 PM and 9:30 PM, and they all handed up song slips before 9:45, and more people are still arriving and handing up their requests before 9:45 PM.

So far, I have given you a count of at least 45 people who have handed up song requests before the 1st rotation has ended (before your 9:45 PM cut-off time to accept more singers within that 1st rotation). Based on the time that these 45 people have handed you their song requests, you might have gotten 9 or 10 singers up so far. 45 people waiting to sing is approximately a 3 hour rotation. Most shows I know of are 4 hours.

What do you do?

i see i did not type what i thought i did, DannyG is correct on what i SHOULD have typed, sorry for the confusion on this.
i have had that happen, and i do make an adjustment for that. when that happens i stop at 10:00 for when the person will sing... by that i mean once i have enough singers to get to 10:00, i go back up to the top to the first singer and alternate new/old.
this way i get a few more in, but am not taking tons of time from the singers who were there first. my biggest change is i will cut off at 9:45, or 10:00 depending on volume (stupid nights like NYE or St Patty's Day for example are a different story). one of my biggest pet peeves is the never ending round, new singers keep getting added onto the end so it never comes back around, like in the scenario you posted. if new singers go on the end, then it will be 3 hours before the singers that were there before i started get to sing again. the way i run it, they wait 45 min to an hour, and the new/old continues. get to the bottom, and i go back to the top new/old so there are not two old singers nor two new singers in a row. the new ones get in, and the old ones get more songs.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:49 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
cueball wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
that is unfortunately the problem that happens with a "new singer to the end" style rotation.
my way around that is to stop taking requests for the first round at 9:45. then anyone giving me a song after 9:45 goes in the second spot, and it's 1 old, 1 new from there.
this way the old singers (there from the beginning) don't get screwed by a never ending round, and new singers get mixed in to get a chance to sing but still wait a bit.


Have you ever had a situation where?....

Let's say your show starts at 9 PM. You have people that have arrived early (well before the show start time). For the sake of this scenario, you have 15 people that arrived early (it could even be more). Now, add on more people who have just shown up at the start of your show (I'll say another 15 people). All of these people (30 so far) have handed up song slips well before your 9:45 PM cut-off time for the first rotation's end. Now, another 15 people fluttered in between 9 PM and 9:30 PM, and they all handed up song slips before 9:45, and more people are still arriving and handing up their requests before 9:45 PM.

So far, I have given you a count of at least 45 people who have handed up song requests before the 1st rotation has ended (before your 9:45 PM cut-off time to accept more singers within that 1st rotation). Based on the time that these 45 people have handed you their song requests, you might have gotten 9 or 10 singers up so far. 45 people waiting to sing is approximately a 3 hour rotation. Most shows I know of are 4 hours.

What do you do?

i see i did not type what i thought i did, DannyG is correct on what i SHOULD have typed, sorry for the confusion on this.
i have had that happen, and i do make an adjustment for that. when that happens i stop at 10:00 for when the person will sing... by that i mean once i have enough singers to get to 10:00, i go back up to the top to the first singer and alternate new/old.
this way i get a few more in, but am not taking tons of time from the singers who were there first. my biggest change is i will cut off at 9:45, or 10:00 depending on volume (stupid nights like NYE or St Patty's Day for example are a different story). one of my biggest pet peeves is the never ending round, new singers keep getting added onto the end so it never comes back around, like in the scenario you posted. if new singers go on the end, then it will be 3 hours before the singers that were there before i started get to sing again. the way i run it, they wait 45 min to an hour, and the new/old continues. get to the bottom, and i go back to the top new/old so there are not two old singers nor two new singers in a row. the new ones get in, and the old ones get more songs.


This is EXACTLY the way I used to run my rotation, except the computer did it for me. it was all based on number of people and the total time of the songs qued.

-James


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:24 am 
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cueball wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
I have had that happen to me more than once, and there is no answer, other than ...... proceed with the show.
I could see that happening almost regularly with your show, because you have said there is limited space and people have to make reservations to attend your show.
My main venue has room for 100+ seats and another 20 standing, so it does get extremely full on most evenings. We also have a wait list if some people don't show.

When I get an exceptionally large number of early arrivers I always start when I have 15 singers signed up with songs queued up.... even if it is an hour earlier than my normal start time.


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