I usually keep a can of Raid Insect spray nearby. Anyone who cups the mic will get sprayed. Yes, this may sound harsh but we have to do something to get the message across. And you probably thought that Raid was only good for killing insects.
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| How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the mic? http://karaokescene.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36882 |
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| Author: | mrmarog [ Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the mic? |
Whenever I get a singer that cups the mic by putting their entire hand around the mic capsule, I just turn the floor monitor off and back way off on the mic gain. When done with their song I will approach them and let them know why I turned everything down. For the most part they are understanding and weren't aware that they were causing me some problems with feedback. Some (very few) tell me that it is no problem at other places they sing at. When asked for some specifics I usually find that the other venues didn't have a floor monitor and also had horrible overall sound. |
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| Author: | TopherM [ Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
I teach them how to hold the mic below the "ring" with one finger over the grille. That give the same "gangsta look" without the feedback concerns. In real life, that's how the pros are doing it when they rap live. |
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| Author: | c. staley [ Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
I will shut off their microphone. Cupping a microphone will simply damage it. I will explain to them that what they are doing will in fact, damage the microphone and/or create feedback. It will stretch out the diaphragm and the microphone will then be permanently bassy if it doesn't rip the diaphragm entirely. I will also tell them that when they are standing 1 foot away from the speaker, it may sound really good to them – but it sounds really lousy to everyone else. Like you are trying to rap or sing through a wet towel. I also explain to them that it "looks really cool, but it sounds terrible." It doesn't matter to me if they agree with me or not, I have a button marked "mute" and I'm not afraid to use it. While this all sounds overly harsh, 99.9% of the time, the singer will correct themselves. |
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| Author: | Alan B [ Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
I usually keep a can of Raid Insect spray nearby. Anyone who cups the mic will get sprayed. Yes, this may sound harsh but we have to do something to get the message across. And you probably thought that Raid was only good for killing insects.
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| Author: | c. staley [ Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
Alan B wrote: I usually keep a can of Raid Insect spray nearby. Anyone who cups the mic will get sprayed. Yes, this may sound harsh but we have to do something to get the message across. And you probably thought that Raid was only good for killing insects. And I usually use a #2 Spaulding bat on them if they purposely drop the mic. 
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| Author: | dsm2000 [ Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
[quote="c. staley"And I usually use a #2 Spaulding bat on them if they purposely drop the mic. [/quote]Even better than a Mic drop is the "Hetfield" solution . . . Mic doesn't work? . . . Just kick it over and let it crash to the stage . . . Yeah . . . That'll fix it! |
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| Author: | CafeBar [ Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
c. staley wrote: Alan B wrote: I usually keep a can of Raid Insect spray nearby. Anyone who cups the mic will get sprayed. Yes, this may sound harsh but we have to do something to get the message across. And you probably thought that Raid was only good for killing insects. And I usually use a #2 Spaulding bat on them if they purposely drop the mic. #2 seems a little extreme. |
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| Author: | mrmarog [ Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
CafeBar wrote: c. staley wrote: And I usually use a #2 Spaulding bat on them if they purposely drop the mic. #2 seems a little extreme. #2 happens after three unsuccessful warnings. I try very hard to make the singer sound their best. No one sounds better when cupping the mic. Not to mention all the spit that only has one way to go.... into the mic. I use RNC compressors which completely kills their screaming especially when set to a 20:1 ratio. Based on your responses I guess most of you just don't care about this as a problem that needs to be addressed. Fortunately I get ZERO rappers so only a few youngsters (under 30) employ this technique for the most part. |
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| Author: | MtnKaraoke [ Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
I always advise new singers to hold the mic by the handle and to hold the mic level directly in front of their mouth (not chin, chest, etc) I added the anti-roll device to all of my mics a few months ago and it has definitely reduced the frequency of cupping. I will also tell a singer to stop it during a performance and if all else fails, mute the channel. It sounds horrible and like Chip stated, it causes damage. I use these mics 7 nights a week and I need them to perform properly for the next show. A few hosts that are members here use the graphic that I created to demonstrate no cupping. Respect the mic. 
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| Author: | rickgood [ Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
I mute the mic and tell them to regrip. They have no concept about how to use a mic and are just mimicking whatever rap idiot, for what reason I can't imagine. |
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| Author: | c. staley [ Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
CafeBar wrote: c. staley wrote: Alan B wrote: I usually keep a can of Raid Insect spray nearby. Anyone who cups the mic will get sprayed. Yes, this may sound harsh but we have to do something to get the message across. And you probably thought that Raid was only good for killing insects. And I usually use a #2 Spaulding bat on them if they purposely drop the mic. #2 seems a little extreme. The #1's kept breaking and the #3's are too heavy. |
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| Author: | Elementary Penguin [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
mrmarog wrote: Based on your responses I guess most of you just don't care about this as a problem that needs to be addressed. Maybe others are like this too, but I tend to tackle these problems in cycles. For awhile I tried hard to police cupping (even using MtnKaraoke's illustration along with other full-color graphics on the covers of my books). It never seemed to do much good. Then I got more concerned with cord swingers and mic droppers, so I stopped thinking much about the cuppers and just turn their mics down and the compressors up, while keeping an eye out for more serious troubles. Now I'm a bit less worried about the twirlers and droppers (having switched to stationary mics) but it seems I've got a rash of people hogging the stage and signing up under multiple names. There's so many little problems that can arise, there's always something to worry about! I'll probably get back to worrying about cupping in due time. But this topic served to remind me the diaphragms are at risk, so it's not a trivial thing by any means. |
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| Author: | Elementary Penguin [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
At first I wondered what this all was doing in the Legalities section, but since we're talking about assaulting our customers with bats and sprays, Legalities must be the right place for it dsm2000 wrote: Even better than a Mic drop is the "Hetfield" solution . . . Mic doesn't work? . . . Just kick it over and let it crash to the stage . . . Yeah . . . That'll fix it! Once only have I had a singer deliberately kick over mic and stand. I was extremely stupid because my response could have gotten me in legal trouble. I laid hands on the guy and threw him through a coat rack. Twice my size too, but I was furious. His friends rushed him out after that, but there'd have been nothing to stop him from calling cops and pressing charges. Worse, it wasn't even at a bar, it was at a corporate holiday party I do every year. Luckily I didn't land in jail, and miraculously I didn't even lose the client. But I vowed to never do anything that stupid again just to defend mere equipment. |
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| Author: | GeminiMALE40 [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
is posted in the rules...on how to treat the mic...that is their warning.....if they decide to do it they dont sing the rest of the night.....it only takes once ...they learn |
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| Author: | gd123 [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:02 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m | ||
Do you notice the words "Phase Ports?" Yeah, the bottom half of the capsule has "TUNED" ports. Meaning, sound MUST come into the bottom back of the capsule in order to "CANCEL" sound coming into the front and sides. This makes the MIC UNI-DIRECTIONAL. Allowing a Singer to place their HANDS or FINGERS to obstruct ANY of these TUNED PORTS causes the MIC to become OMNI-DIRECTIONAL and subject to FEEDBACK. This is NOT allowed at any time and I, too, have a MUTE button. I will interrupt the Singer to get it corrected. If the Singer does not comply, their MIC gets MUTED. If a Singer drops the MIC on purpose, they NEVER get to use a MIC again. I don't mind them singing...they just can't use a MIC.
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| Author: | Alan B [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
gd123 wrote: Allowing a Singer to place their HANDS or FINGERS to obstruct ANY of these TUNED PORTS causes the MIC to become OMNI-DIRECTIONAL and subject to FEEDBACK. This is not true. An Omni-Directional mic will pick up sounds from all sides of the mic head. Front, back, bottom, top or sides. If you cup a Omni-Directional mic but leave the top exposed will still adequately pick up sound. On the other hand, a Cardioid mic is directional picking up sound from the front. It is this type of mic that is affected by cupping since it can block the sound causing feedback and distortion. However, no mic should be cupped. That's why there's a handle in which to hold it. And no mic should be exposed or used near a loudspeaker which can cause feedback although a Cardioid mic is better at minimizing feedback. |
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| Author: | gd123 [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
Alan B wrote: Quote: This is not true. An Omni-Directional mic will pick up sounds from all sides of the mic head. Front, back, bottom, top or sides. If you cup a Omni-Directional mic but leave the top exposed will still adequately pick up sound. On the other hand, a Cardioid mic is directional picking up sound from the front. It is this type of mic that is affected by cupping since it can block the sound causing feedback and distortion. However, no mic should be cupped. That's why there's a handle in which to hold it. And no mic should be exposed or used near a loudspeaker which can cause feedback although a Cardioid mic is better at minimizing feedback. I guess I wasn't CLEAR, obviously...let me clarify. And, as much as hate quoting something that I didn't even talk about for fear of lending credence to the post, now, it seems, I must. First of all, I was referring to a UNI-Directional MIC being used in such a way that it becomes an OMNI...is that CLEAR? Who in the Hell uses an OMNI at a LIVE Karaoke show, which seems to be what the F#@% we were talking about? So, why am I being schooled on an OMNI? Second, did you think that I made that graphic myself? Did you bother to READ what was in the GRAPHIC? The GRAPHIC came from a SOUND ENGINEER. Here's another "Sound Engineer." Slide over to 2:09 for his dissertation on cupping the MIC. You might learn how a UNI becomes an OMNI. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-QHXtx7XJ0 |
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| Author: | Alan B [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
gd123 wrote: Who in the Hell uses an OMNI at a LIVE Karaoke show, You would be amazed at what some of the trash karaoke hosts are using. Especially if it's cheap or free. Of course I'm sure that all of us here as well as anyone who has an inkling of knowledge about sound and equipment would never use an OMNI mic at a live show. Anyway, thank you for your eloquent response.
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| Author: | Lonman [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
I just adjust the eq, pulling the mids and boosting the low a hair. It won't hurt the mic, just makes the singer sound like an AM radio. On some songs I sing, I use the cupping technique as an effect one example Wild Wild West - Escape Club, there is a verse that is AM radio sounding in the original. Anything But Mine - Kenny Chesney, I purposely tell people on the end verse to cup the mic to get that AM radio effect on the original. |
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| Author: | MtnKaraoke [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you feel about singers "cupping" (crowding) the m |
Lonman wrote: ... It won't hurt the mic, just makes the singer sound like an AM radio. ... I purposely tell people on the end verse to cup the mic to get that AM radio effect on the original. With all due respect... It can and will hurt the mic as explained before. The "AM radio effect" is a result of manipulation when recording or, possibly, the use of a specific microphone while recording. It's nostalgic, but it originated because the playback device of those songs with that sound was an actual AM Radio, not because someone cupped the mic. I simply won't tell anyone to deliberately cup the mic under any circumstances. First, because most that do are going to scream at the top of their lungs and second, I don't want everyone else to get the idea that this behavior is acceptable. It's like wandering off-stage with a wireless mic... I don't want to risk it. |
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