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Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
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Author:  screamersusa [ Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:15 am ]
Post subject:  Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
While re ripping disks for HQ... I noticed my purchased downloads are all over the place.

KV's appear to be all 160kbs WTH!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not happy!!!!!
KN are 320
SBI are from 196-320

The advantage of a higher bit rate is life.. The breath and life of music is hidden in the upper and lower end. Warm round bass and highs above 16k are where the breath is hidden. We may not be able to hear them but WE CAN hear the lower harmonics creating a subliminal
sense of energy. This is not some theoretical crap but actual in show research I have done while designing pa systems and trying to deal with ear fatigue issues and manipulating large audiences to stay happy and energetic through a night.
I would expect my purchased downloads of new tracks to be at a decent bitrate, not FM radio like the pirates have!!!!

Opinion
I am personally sick and tired of mediocrity becoming the norm. Just because the average person will put up with crap, does not mean we can't strive to provide quality. They put up with crap because they either don't care or don't know better. As soon as you expose them to something better, they want it. If you are going to rip disks at 128 it becomes a waste because every pirate has a 128 library too. To beat the pirates you have to be better. Just being legal is not enough.
It's just like bands: One band may play the song note for note perfect, and sonically flawless like a record, the other may PLAY the song as if it were their own and slightly off. Singers and audiences will usually gravitate to the imperfect band because their content lives and breathes and has life while the perfect band becomes tiring and sterile. This is why I actually like THM Rock and a few other off brands. The content breathes and the background vocals are there. They may not "sound" note for note, but they "Feel" better Live
and the critical cues are there. I've even put some SGB and DK back in the library because of this.
The biggest complaint I hear in karaoke land is "this guy or that guy is too loud" despite the fact that I am actually the "loud" one technically (db wise). It's the dynamic range and frequency response of the content (and the system reproducing it)!
Decent bit rates lead to lower ear and brain fatigue.
I don't expect perfection but I would really like 38hz -18khz flat so I don't have to be forced into mediocrity.
Author:  screamersusa [ Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
Does anyone know of a program that will tell you what the cdg you are ripping is actually encoded at?
I've been using a spectrum analyzer to guess after ripping a track or two at 320. A number of manufacturers original disks
are NOT 256-320k so re ripping won't improve them. Some are at 128 and are heading for my resale pile as soon as I can replace them
IF I can replace them. (these are CDG not SCDG, NEO or CAVS)
Author:  Karaoke Croaker [ Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
YOU'RE USING EQUIPMENT TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 128 AND 320 TRACKS. The average person in a bar who wants to sing karaoke couldn't care less.
Author:  KaraokeIan [ Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
Karaoke Croaker wrote:
YOU'RE USING EQUIPMENT TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 128 AND 320 TRACKS. The average person in a bar who wants to sing karaoke couldn't care less.


That's very true. Back in the Napster days, 128 was considered the minimum threshold for the average human ear to not be able to tell the difference. At 160, even some audiophiles can't tell the difference. Especially when boosted to hundreds of watts in a bar environment.

Not to mention the MP3 compression scheme has been vastly improved since the Napster days and even 128 sounds incredibly clear. If you have any 128k files that don't sound that great, most likely they're pretty old or compressed with old software.
Author:  karaokeniagarafalls [ Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
screamersusa wrote:
Does anyone know of a program that will tell you what the cdg you are ripping is actually encoded at?
I've been using a spectrum analyzer to guess after ripping a track or two at 320. A number of manufacturers original disks
are NOT 256-320k so re ripping won't improve them. Some are at 128 and are heading for my resale pile as soon as I can replace them
IF I can replace them. (these are CDG not SCDG, NEO or CAVS)


1) You can simply unzip the karaoke file and then in the folder you can right click on the tab and choose to show bit rate.
2) download kjams 2 trial software > set your tags to L-T - R - S then drag the folder of zip files into the main window > right click on the tab and choose to show bit rate.

(IMPORTANT) Allthough kjams along with other programs have an option to convert your files to best 320 bit quality, DON'T EVER DO THIS.

It is absolutely stupid to blow up a 128bit, or any bit size to look like 320bit. The audio quality will always be 128bit.
Author:  Alan B [ Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
karaokeniagarafalls wrote:
It is absolutely stupid to blow up a 128bit, or any bit size to look like 320bit. The audio quality will always be 128bit.

That is so true. It's like trying to get a stereo recording when the original was recorded in mono. Once again, KNF comes through with her incredible wisdom.
Author:  Paradigm Karaoke [ Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
screamersusa wrote:
While re ripping disks for HQ... I noticed my purchased downloads are all over the place.

KV's appear to be all 160kbs WTH!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not happy!!!!!
KN are 320
SBI are from 196-320


up until you looked, you had no idea and were happy with the quality, so why all of a sudden do they not sound good anymore?
Author:  screamersusa [ Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
screamersusa wrote:
While re ripping disks for HQ... I noticed my purchased downloads are all over the place.

KV's appear to be all 160kbs WTH!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not happy!!!!!
KN are 320
SBI are from 196-320


up until you looked, you had no idea and were happy with the quality, so why all of a sudden do they not sound good anymore?


Actually I just didn't say anything untill I figured out why I didn't like certain tracks and found them annoying. I am one of the only guys around here who actually bring subs etc, and was getting frustrated as to why my system sounded just as crappy as everybody elses.
I pulled out some old pioneer rips and the system came alive as it was designed to be. Then I started trying to figure out why.
I hadn't done enough shows (karaoke that is), to use enough of the library.

No I didn't start by using equipment to measure... I found mixing the live vocal difficult, ear fatigue on certain brand tracks annoying and no "Balls" on tracks that should have them, and a preference for tracks many of you don't like. THEN I started using equipment to find out why.

No the audience doesn't care....at least that's how it may appear. In my experience, they sometimes never realize why they keep coming back to a particular person or group over another...quality of service. You simply grin and enjoy the fruits of your effort :)
Author:  Karaoke Croaker [ Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
seems a bit like bit rate envy if you ask me. My bit rate is bigger than yours so my show must be a better show. Not always the case at all.
Author:  Karaoke Croaker [ Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
The people with the big 320 bit rates need to realize that they aren't being hired as the entertainment for the Super Bowl. They are playing, for the most part, very small venues full of drinking people looking to have some fun and are not there as audiology experts.
Author:  karaokeniagarafalls [ Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
U don't need to be an audio expert. Just play the tracks through a good quality sound system and you will here the audible difference.

Kind of like watching a movie with 30fps as compared to 60fps, many will not notice, but there are those who care to notice.

For those who care, there are plenty of Spectrum Analizer apps for tablets and smart phones available to those who like to see a visual of the quality of their purchased tracks.
Author:  Karaoke Croaker [ Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
I can just imagine someone telling the KJ that he will only sing a song if it's been ripped at 320. If it's ripped at 128; I don't want to sing. LOL
Author:  mightywiz [ Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
you right click on the mp3 portion of the track and select properties, one of the tabs gives you all the info you need about the track, including the bit rate it was recorded at. no need for special software to get the info.
Author:  mrmarog [ Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
Unfortunately if they are zipped you have to unzip them. Exploring the zip file won't work.
Author:  Paradigm Karaoke [ Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
Karaoke Croaker wrote:
The people with the big 320 bit rates need to realize that they aren't being hired as the entertainment for the Super Bowl. They are playing, for the most part, very small venues full of drinking people looking to have some fun and are not there as audiology experts.

no, but lower bitrate really is more fatiguing to a person (not audiophiles necessarily, but the physics involved does tire out the ears more, like reading in low light tires out the eyes) and people do not stay as long. higher bitrate does not have that affect and whether they know why or not, the experience is more pleasing to them overall.
Author:  Karaoke Croaker [ Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
next they'll be saying that listening to music ripped at 128 causes ear cancer.
Author:  Paradigm Karaoke [ Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
you ever reed a book in low light? remeber how it tires your eyes? with the right l;ight you can read much longer, same with music bitrates.
Author:  mightywiz [ Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
the issue I have with low bit rates are at 128k when you do key changes you get some audio distortion. kind of sounds like a warble with the music. at 192k it considerably less noticeable. and at 320k you can't even tell. but at 320k you have a lot less compressed audio to deal with.

they say at 192k the average person will not be able to tell the difference and myself I can't tell until I've done a key change. but at 320k it's not noticeable.

try it for yourself and see.
Author:  BigJer [ Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
I try to.rip at 320 when I rip my own tracks, just because some folks say they can tell the diffetence, but honestly I've never had a complaint about the Chartbusters scdgs that I own which are basically equivalent to the 128 bit rate.
Author:  earthling12357 [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Version Bitrate???????????
If somebody wants to rip to 128, I don't think they should be given any flac.
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