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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:07 am 
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The trouble I have with server tools, and this was the same for both kjams and tricerasoft, was not being able to see what was coming in and as a result, would have 3 different people trying to sing paradise by the dashboard light (*shudders at the thought of that*) although with the sever tool and a different hosting program I could see them

I like how with SBDB I can filter them and send messages that the song is already picked. Though I've had people send requests a half hour before they get to the bar lol


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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:55 am 
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bazinga wrote:
I think in today's age, using technology is more widely accepted than in the past. People tend to crave using apps more and more.


Maybe in their spare time, but not when they're drinking. No kiosk or phone app that accepts requests will ever be able to save you time when it comes to people who change their mind about what they're going to sing next. Nothing beats asking for their song when they come up to sing. It solves headaches for the singers and the KJs, and saves everyone time. When the song is in the singer's head, it can change by the time he or she gets up. It can change many times, but as long as you wait to ask them for that final choice when they come up to sing, that change of choice can happen as many times as the singer wants and it doesn't inconvenience anyone because it's only happening in their head.

The only time a song request tool makes sense is if the KJ isn't there and it's some type of automated jukebox. I mean how hard is it to cue up a song the moment the singer comes up? To me, the KJs who use request tools are the ones who find that simple task to be too much work, and to them, I say you're lazy. I say you just want to be a sound engineer who doesn't have to talk to anyone, and I say you completely miss the whole social aspect of what a night out at karaoke is supposed to be.

Using technology to make your job easier is one thing, but to use technology to get others to do your job is something completely different. Singers come to drink and sing and socialize, not to do your job for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:17 pm 
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KaraokeIan wrote:
<snipped> Nothing beats asking for their song when they come up to sing. It solves headaches for the singers and the KJs, and saves everyone time. When the song is in the singer's head, it can change by the time he or she gets up. It can change many times, but as long as you wait to ask them for that final choice when they come up to sing, that change of choice can happen as many times as the singer wants and it doesn't inconvenience anyone because it's only happening in their head.

Nothing beats song slips. I must have a song queued up before the singer is called to stage, and no changes to the song once they are called to sing. That is the most time saving method for everyone every time. They can change their song as many times as they want before that. I can have ZERO seconds between singers this way. Karaokelan can you type faster than zero seconds to find a song, trim the start and stops, and make a key change?


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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:13 pm 
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mrmarog wrote:
KaraokeIan wrote:
<snipped> Nothing beats asking for their song when they come up to sing. It solves headaches for the singers and the KJs, and saves everyone time. When the song is in the singer's head, it can change by the time he or she gets up. It can change many times, but as long as you wait to ask them for that final choice when they come up to sing, that change of choice can happen as many times as the singer wants and it doesn't inconvenience anyone because it's only happening in their head.

Nothing beats song slips. I must have a song queued up before the singer is called to stage, and no changes to the song once they are called to sing. That is the most time saving method for everyone every time. They can change their song as many times as they want before that. I can have ZERO seconds between singers this way. Karaokelan can you type faster than zero seconds to find a song, trim the start and stops, and make a key change?


There's not a song out there I can't lookup, AND have playing, within 10 seconds. I don't adjust start times on karaoke tracks but will trim ending space after the song is playing. I like the audience seeing the title page to mentally prepare themselves. It also gives the singer a few seconds to prepare themselves. Also, there are some songs (not many) where the singing actually starts before the music ("What is and what should never be" by Zeppelin comes to mind).

I'll take slips in advance, but I tell people it's easier just to wait until they're turn before they give me their song because there will always be those that don't really have something picked until the last minute. Sometimes the current performance affects the next singer's song choice. Sure, it takes 10 seconds, but let's be honest, in the scheme of things, when you include the time waiting for the next singer to get up to the stage, it's not much. I'm sure you could have a system setup where the "on deck" singer has to be right there waiting to go, and immediately start them as soon as the current performance is finished, but to me, that's a tad bit rushed.

To me, as someone who is also an audience member to these performances, I view listening to karaoke performances like wine tasting. You don't instantly go right from one glass to the next. You take a pause and maybe rinse your mouth out in preparation for the next one. That's what the 20 to 30 seconds of lower volume filler music is for while we wait for the next performance to begin. Without that, it just seems like a non-stop train.


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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:50 pm 
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KaraokeIan wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
Nothing beats song slips. I must have a song queued up before the singer is called to stage, and no changes to the song once they are called to sing. That is the most time saving method for everyone every time. They can change their song as many times as they want before that. I can have ZERO seconds between singers this way. Karaokelan can you type faster than zero seconds to find a song, trim the start and stops, and make a key change?
There's not a song out there I can't lookup, AND have playing, within 10 seconds. I don't adjust start times on karaoke tracks but will trim ending space after the song is playing. I like the audience seeing the title page to mentally prepare themselves. It also gives the singer a few seconds to prepare themselves. Also, there are some songs (not many) where the singing actually starts before the music ("What is and what should never be" by Zeppelin comes to mind).

I'll take slips in advance, but I tell people it's easier just to wait until they're turn before they give me their song because there will always be those that don't really have something picked until the last minute. Sometimes the current performance affects the next singer's song choice. Sure, it takes 10 seconds, but let's be honest, in the scheme of things, when you include the time waiting for the next singer to get up to the stage, it's not much. I'm sure you could have a system setup where the "on deck" singer has to be right there waiting to go, and immediately start them as soon as the current performance is finished, but to me, that's a tad bit rushed.

To me, as someone who is also an audience member to these performances, I view listening to karaoke performances like wine tasting. You don't instantly go right from one glass to the next. You take a pause and maybe rinse your mouth out in preparation for the next one. That's what the 20 to 30 seconds of lower volume filler music is for while we wait for the next performance to begin. Without that, it just seems like a non-stop train.
That's 20 to 30 seconds X 60 singers (25 seconds x 60 = 1500 divided by 60 = 25 minutes of wasted time). As an engineer, efficiency matters, as does my singers time.

I would bet that there are many times an evening that it takes more than a minute between singers doing it your way. Oh well to each his own


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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:06 pm 
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mrmarog wrote:
KaraokeIan wrote:
<snipped> Nothing beats asking for their song when they come up to sing. It solves headaches for the singers and the KJs, and saves everyone time. When the song is in the singer's head, it can change by the time he or she gets up. It can change many times, but as long as you wait to ask them for that final choice when they come up to sing, that change of choice can happen as many times as the singer wants and it doesn't inconvenience anyone because it's only happening in their head.

Nothing beats song slips. I must have a song queued up before the singer is called to stage, and no changes to the song once they are called to sing. That is the most time saving method for everyone every time. They can change their song as many times as they want before that. I can have ZERO seconds between singers this way. Karaokelan can you type faster than zero seconds to find a song, trim the start and stops, and make a key change?
I used to have that stance when I was disc based, but now I can have a song changed, cued & playing (with key and tempo change if needed) within 10 or so seconds. All songs start and stop points are automatically trimmed in my program. There are reasons people like to change songs at the last minute - often it's to keep a flow or theme going or last minute request/or their last song perhaps. A few seconds to change a song on occasion is not going to be the end of a show.

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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:08 pm 
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mrmarog wrote:
As an engineer, efficiency matters, as does my singers time.

I would bet that there are many times an evening that it takes more than a minute between singers doing it your way. Oh well to each his own


Actually, most of the singers are regulars and can't wait to get up and are usually standing next to me by the time the current song finishes. People have learned to watch the scroller on screen to see who's up next. Most times they also usually pick one of their regular songs in their history, and in those cases, you're only talking about a couple of mouse clicks. For new singers or new song choices, that extra few seconds is actually a small clue to the audience that the upcoming performance will be new. You'd be surprised what people pick up on.

I agree with the statement each to his own. The pace of your show is your own choice and crowds have different preferences and get used to certain KJs. I know a couple of KJs who like to throw a lot more dance songs in to give people a break from karaoke for a few minutes here and there. Some people love it and some people hate it. I think a lot of that depends on the percentage of anxious singers in the crowd, but that's a completely different discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:09 pm 
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mrmarog wrote:
That's 20 to 30 seconds X 60 singers (25 seconds x 60 = 1500 divided by 60 = 25 minutes of wasted time). As an engineer, efficiency matters, as does my singers time.

I would bet that there are many times an evening that it takes more than a minute between singers doing it your way. Oh well to each his own
C'mon, that is a little exaggerated. I'd bet that 99% of the people are going to sing what is up because they put it up. The rare occasion someone changes their song last minute is not by any means the norm - at least i've never experienced it in 25+years. Even when I was disc based - but then the only difference would be the person wanting to do the last minute change would move with the next singer and their spots would reverse.
I have NEVER taken more than even 30 seconds (again takes maybe 10 seconds max to type in and drop the song in the playlist) to change a song at the last minute. And again it happens so infrequently, it's not going to be the break of a show. A singer is NOT going to say "Oh my God that KJ is wasting MY time changing THAT persons song at the last minute"! Gimme a break! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Machine Gun Karaoke...... I don't do it and my singers don't want it.

We run relaxed shows and we get 12-15 singers in an hour.

With Karma, I can find a song and add it to a singer and get it playing in about 5 seconds. So I allow singers to put their name in only and simply give me the song or change it when they get on stage.

I prefer when they give me their songs and don't change them, but if they don't know yet or change it last minute, it doesn't bother me at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:27 pm 
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chrisavis wrote:
We run relaxed shows and we get 12-15 singers in an hour.

And unless you cut out songs that are over 4 minutes, that's all most any show is going to get through anyway - even with the quick to the stage method - and that is if you let the song play to the very end (which I don't, once a singer walks off the stage, their turn is done, I call for the applause and fade out their song and move to the next). A song swap at the last minute is not a big deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:35 pm 
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Lonman wrote:
A few seconds to change a song on occasion is not going to be the end of a show.


Spoken like a true veteran. Completely agree. Those of us who remember the days of swapping CDs won't ever look at a few seconds to lookup and start a song as ever being a long time. I honestly can't imagine it ever being much faster. I'm sure some apps in the future will have voice recognition and you'll be able to start a song with your voice, but even then, how much time savings are we talking about? A second?

Most of the "wasted" time at my show is people who don't pay attention to the rotation on the screen and aren't ready. Not much you can do about that, other than give the occasional reminder to pay attention to the rotation. You can't get on the mic and remind people too much without sounding monotonous, and then there's the alcohol factor, which, no app has a solution for.


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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:43 pm 
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chrisavis wrote:
Machine Gun Karaoke...... I don't do it and my singers don't want it.

We run relaxed shows and we get 12-15 singers in an hour.


Chris gets it. "Relaxed" is the keyword. I think every KJ should go out as a singer to another show just to occasionally remind yourself what it's like to be the singer who just came out to the bar to relax and have some fun.

Most people spend all week working, being expected to do everything in a timely manner. Even when you go to a store you have to stand in line at a cashier and be ready to go. The night you go out to drink is supposed to be the night you can leave all of that rushed expectation behind. Personally, I think it's part of the KJ's job to help facilitate that kind of atmosphere. I also think it's the difference between the KJs who love their job and the KJs who just view it as a job and can't wait to get home.


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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:13 pm 
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I'm about 30 seconds to 1 min between songs. I do alot of things well in karaoke, but my taste in music far outweighs my ability to be funny on the microphone lol. I use filler music, and reduce the wait time between songs


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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:40 am 
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If we get doubles of a song, it's first one up gets to sing it. As most of my singers are fairly regular, they know to come up to me if they hear someone singing "their" song. Who wants to hear 'Paradise By The Dashboard Light' twice! (Agrees with the shudder).

We get switched on all the time... It's part of the job. Thankfully everything is labelled and its a quick search query to replace the song. In JK2.0, the program kind of makes a "folder" where all the singers songs go (We ask for first name, last initial because everyone thinks they are the only one with the name "Mike" in the bar ugh), so if they have more songs in the folder, we can just switch out no problems.

Requests slips... wonderful things... sometimes I can't read 'em. Sometimes I so can't read them that I post them on social media and ask people to guess what song this is... very entertaining when 5 or 6 people go "WTF?!?!". I tell people to write to me like I am in 3rd grade, not a pharmacist. Sometimes singers use the song book, sometimes they don't. I love it when I get the song Like "Crazy" with no song number or artist, it makes ME crazy, lol.

As for the song books (dead tree edition): People accidentally hide them with a coat, or turn them into coasters, or decide my book needs a drink too. They rip out a page because its easier to read, take them home with them so they can pick songs for next time (yes, this actually happened), etc. Not to mention, Every time we do a print run, it cost about $100 plus the time to put it all together.

Digital songbooks don't solve all the problems, nothing is 100% drunk proof, but if I can get them to commit to a song list before they get drunk, it's usually worth the headache of a switched song and stuff like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:05 am 
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KaraokeIan wrote:
chrisavis wrote:
Machine Gun Karaoke...... I don't do it and my singers don't want it.

We run relaxed shows and we get 12-15 singers in an hour.


Chris gets it. "Relaxed" is the keyword. I think every KJ should go out as a singer to another show just to occasionally remind yourself what it's like to be the singer who just came out to the bar to relax and have some fun.
When you have 30 to 40 singers very regularly then you have tons of time to relax between songs. My singers love my shows because I don't waste any one's time. I will rapidly move on to the next singer if the singer doesn't get to the stage or show any intent of coming to the stage within a very short period of time. The skipped singer will be next again and the audience/singers all appreciate my efforts to keep things moving.


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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:57 am 
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KaraokeIan wrote:
chrisavis wrote:
Machine Gun Karaoke...... I don't do it and my singers don't want it.

We run relaxed shows and we get 12-15 singers in an hour.


Chris gets it. "Relaxed" is the keyword. I think every KJ should go out as a singer to another show just to occasionally remind yourself what it's like to be the singer who just came out to the bar to relax and have some fun.

Most people spend all week working, being expected to do everything in a timely manner. Even when you go to a store you have to stand in line at a cashier and be ready to go. The night you go out to drink is supposed to be the night you can leave all of that rushed expectation behind. Personally, I think it's part of the KJ's job to help facilitate that kind of atmosphere. I also think it's the difference between the KJs who love their job and the KJs who just view it as a job and can't wait to get home.


Agreed! I am a big fan of always being engaged in the work you do. Even though I am mostly a manager these days, I still go out to my own shows as well as other KJ shows so I can keep myself grounded in WHY I started doing it in the first place - I want to provide an experience that singers will be happy with and come back for.

I know "machine gun karaoke" is the norm for some, but I don't want the pressure for me, my hosts or the singers to have to be immediately ready to sing when someone finishes. I am all for efficiency, but I have no interest in winning the award for "most karaoke songs played in a night".

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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:59 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
When you have 30 to 40 singers very regularly then you have tons of time to relax between songs. My singers love my shows because I don't waste any one's time. I will rapidly move on to the next singer if the singer doesn't get to the stage or show any intent of coming to the stage within a very short period of time. The skipped singer will be next again and the audience/singers all appreciate my efforts to keep things moving.

So everyone are singing upbeat, danceable songs, people are up and partying, the guy that has Old Man River in realizes he wants to change his song at the last minute to Uptown Funk to keep the flow of the party mood going. You would rather tell him, nope sorry, no changes and sing your song - totally killing the party mood.
sorry a last minute song switch is not wasting anybody's time, it's just good service.

I don't dawdle with singers either, if they aren't up or I don't see them making their way, they get a going 1-2-3 out and move on to the next. Usually when you start counting, it gets their butt up. Same goes with people that are signed up without their knowledge by friends. If they tell me no when I call their name - I say ok and move on.

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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Lonman wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
When you have 30 to 40 singers very regularly then you have tons of time to relax between songs. My singers love my shows because I don't waste any one's time. I will rapidly move on to the next singer if the singer doesn't get to the stage or show any intent of coming to the stage within a very short period of time. The skipped singer will be next again and the audience/singers all appreciate my efforts to keep things moving.

So everyone are singing upbeat, danceable songs, people are up and partying, the guy that has Old Man River in realizes he wants to change his song at the last minute to Uptown Funk to keep the flow of the party mood going. You would rather tell him, nope sorry, no changes and sing your song - totally killing the party mood.
sorry a last minute song switch is not wasting anybody's time, it's just good service.

I don't dawdle with singers either, if they aren't up or I don't see them making their way, they get a going 1-2-3 out and move on to the next. Usually when you start counting, it gets their butt up. Same goes with people that are signed up without their knowledge by friends. If they tell me no when I call their name - I say ok and move on.
The next singer has the entire song length before him to get up to the stage to change his song. He doesn't have to wait until he gets on stage to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:41 pm 
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mrmarog wrote:
The next singer has the entire song length before him to get up to the stage to change his song. He doesn't have to wait until he gets on stage to do it.
Sure he does. However at the last minute decides oh wow, I really should do something that DOESN'T want to kill the vibe of the club with a downer song, you would still force him to sing it and not take a couple seconds to change it? And if you are still disc based, then yes I completely understand and wouldn't do it either, but would go to the next singer & put that guy after to get the new song cued up.

How bout the person who is unsure of a song, maybe gets 30 seconds into the song and says this isn't the one I was thinking of can I just do my next song instead (again not an issue, doesn't happen often enough to worry about but isn't a problem for me either).

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 Post subject: Re: Tricerasoft down?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:09 am 
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Lonman wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
The next singer has the entire song length before him to get up to the stage to change his song. He doesn't have to wait until he gets on stage to do it.
How bout the person who is unsure of a song, maybe gets 30 seconds into the song and says this isn't the one I was thinking of can I just do my next song instead (again not an issue, doesn't happen often enough to worry about but isn't a problem for me either).
If someone is clearly struggling with a song and makes it clear that they don't know the song or it is not the song they wanted..... I will gladly helped them. As far as changing songs is concerned, I make offers every show to "buy the next 3 singers a drink to change their slow song to an upbeat dance song"


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