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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:15 am 
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CafeBar wrote:
Anyone who thinks the main issue is hiring non-smokers is like a blind man who thinks an elephant is shaped like a toenail

Yes, totally agree! Who gives a sh*t if your server is a smoker as long as they are providing excellent customer service. I would take a smoker who does an outstanding job any day of the week over a mediocre non smoker. And I wouldn't care how many times they went outside to smoke (as long as they weren't busy and didn't abuse it).

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:17 am 
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Alan B wrote:
CafeBar wrote:
Anyone who thinks the main issue is hiring non-smokers is like a blind man who thinks an elephant is shaped like a toenail

Yes, totally agree! Who gives a sh*t if your server is a smoker as long as they are providing excellent customer service. I would take a smoker who does an outstanding job any day of the week over a mediocre non smoker. And I wouldn't care how many times they went outside to smoke (as long as they weren't busy and didn't abuse it).


Not just pointing at you Alan,, but you people just are not getting it. What has been suggested is not hiring only non smokers, but not letting people smoke while on shift. You people only read what and believe what you want to see and hear. Hiring quality people whether they are smokers or not is what I would do. If they are such great employees, they would not waste time spending literally hours outside each day lighting up. If it's so quiet in customer patronage, then good employees will find other productive things to do instead of spending and wasting time outside. And if it is actually their break time, and they feel the need to have a nicotine fix, maybe I could concede them calming their nerves with a smoke break. However, if they are truly "quality" employees, they probably would be able to control their habits long enough to get through a shift.


Last edited by mrscott on Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:27 am 
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CafeBar wrote:
dadman wrote:
What about the applicant who asks for a break every 3 or 4 hours so he can bang up some heroin or meth? Why in the hell should a business owner have to capitulate to the addiction of an employee?


No one has to capitulate to an employee's addiction, but you're not getting it.

Putting aside the obvious difference (legality), there's a practical consideration here--you're trying to hire the best people you can, and smoking is a very common addiction among talented waitstaff, and heroin and meth are not.

You're absolutely right--you have the right to refuse to hire smokers. I hope like hell all my competitors do it and I'll have the best waitstaff in town, because I'll hire up their best people in a heartbeat.

Employee smoking on the job is simply not a big deal, as long as you hire people who prioritize guest experience. I know that firsthand, which is different from speculation. I don't smoke (anything) but I don't have a big attitude toward it, because it's not productive.

Most people don't understand business at all. Business planning is damned hard, and KJs' pet peeves do not comprise a business plan. It's a damned hard business, full of financial and structural and mechanical and marketing and compliance and personnel issues that most people can't imagine. There are far more ways to fail at it than to succeed.

When I hear someone start out with "If I owned a bar..." I'm listening to someone who'll be damned lucky if they don't go through with it. Anyone who thinks the main issue is hiring non-smokers is like a blind man who thinks an elephant is shaped like a toenail


With all due respect, I think you are coming across a little arrogant in thinking that you know everything about running a business. And that your way is the only way to run a business. I do respect your input greatly, but don't be so blinded that by my starting this thread with "If I owned a bar..." as me or any person doesn't know what they are doing, or doesn't see what others are doing is counter productive to succussful business operation. I see countless mistakes of owners and management each day that hurt the success of their establishments. And smoking is only a tiny part of the bigger picture. It's not the idea that I would be hiring ONLY non smokers, it's that I would be curtailing lost time and wasted resourses from employees. I see it every single time I go out to clubs and restaurants, and it makes me wonder why nobody does anything about it. I saw it again last night, and the night before. It's the managers/owners responsibility to give proper training and demand a level of excellence in customer service and work ethic. Smoking simply wastes time, nothing more. I challenge anyone to come up with one positive aspect of smoking that can't be overcome by simply changing a bad habit.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:09 am 
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Mr. Scott, I do get that you don't like smoking.

The question that was asked was whether I would accommodate a meth user's addiction by allowing them to take a break 'every two or three hours.' The implication is that by giving smoke breaks, I'm doing something similar.

The fact is that I'm required by law to give every employee breaks every two hours or so, whether they smoke or not. The idea that this minimum requirement is suddenly excessive because the person smokes during his own scheduled break reflects one's dislike of smoking rather than any legitimate business consideration.

You're absolutely correct that smoking by employees can be disruptive to service, but that reflects bad management rather than a need to insist that people go through their shift, including their breaks, without smoking. Smokers need to understand that they don't get extra breaks compared to other employees, and at least at my place the co-workers will complain if they do. They need to plan their breaks to minimize loss of service--wait until they're caught up, having another server cover their section, not taking breaks during band breaks, etc. There's a difference of a professional server saying, "I'm going on break in a minute--can I get you anything first?" rather than just disappearing, and it has nothing to do with whether they smoke during their break or not.

I don't know of any local bar that doesn't hire smokers or who doesn't let them smoke during their breaks, although there might be some. Hiring for closing shifts (the ones where you likely work), you tend to get a lot of applicants who smoke. Some of the clubs have great service, some is terrible. I can think of one local club that has tons of people on the floor all the time, so they could probably have someone on break at all times without being short-handed, but their service is so poorly assigned and organized that it's still slow and inattentive. I have no idea how many of them smoke, and it wouldn't really matter.

I'm not arrogant, and I'm sorry if I came across that way. I don't claim to know the only way to run a bar, and I'm no genius at business, either. I've just seen a lot of people starting out with a few exaggerated pet peeves thinking it's the key to success, and it rarely ends well. I learned a lot about business the same way you are--playing in bars and observing them--but there are a lot of systemic and structural issues to organizing service that supersede your disdain for people with 'bad habits', which simply reduces your potential labor pool, to no good end.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:50 am 
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CafeBar wrote:
Mr. Scott, I do get that you don't like smoking.

The question that was asked was whether I would accommodate a meth user's addiction by allowing them to take a break 'every two or three hours.' The implication is that by giving smoke breaks, I'm doing something similar.

The fact is that I'm required by law to give every employee breaks every two hours or so, whether they smoke or not. The idea that this minimum requirement is suddenly excessive because the person smokes during his own scheduled break reflects one's dislike of smoking rather than any legitimate business consideration.

You're absolutely correct that smoking by employees can be disruptive to service, but that reflects bad management rather than a need to insist that people go through their shift, including their breaks, without smoking. Smokers need to understand that they don't get extra breaks compared to other employees, and at least at my place the co-workers will complain if they do. They need to plan their breaks to minimize loss of service--wait until they're caught up, having another server cover their section, not taking breaks during band breaks, etc. There's a difference of a professional server saying, "I'm going on break in a minute--can I get you anything first?" rather than just disappearing, and it has nothing to do with whether they smoke during their break or not.

I don't know of any local bar that doesn't hire smokers, although there might be some. Hiring for closing shifts (the ones where you likely work), you tend to get a lot of applicants who smoke. Some of the clubs have great service, some is terrible. I can think of one local club that has tons of people on the floor all the time, so they could probably have someone on break at all times without being short-handed, but their service is so poorly assigned and organized that it's still slow and inattentive. I have no idea how many of them smoke, and it wouldn't really matter.

I'm not arrogant, and I'm sorry if I came across that way. I don't claim to know the only way to run a bar, and I'm no genius at business, either. I've just seen a lot of people starting out with a few exaggerated pet peeves thinking it's the key to success, and it rarely ends well. I learned a lot about business the same way you are--playing in bars and observing them--but there are a lot of systemic and structural issues to organizing service that supersede your disdain for people with 'bad habits', which simply reduces your potential labor pool, to no good end.


Thank you for your feedback and apology accepted too. Yes, I do not like smoking, but that doesn't mean I don't like "smokers". I have close friends who smoke. I have friends who have other bad, un-healthy habits. Yes, even I, as perfect as I am--"tongue-in-cheek" haha,, have bad habits. This entire thread has been turned into a smoking vs. non-smoking employee topic, and that is not the idea in the first place. It's about creating a work place that has the potential of giving the greatest possible chance of success, not only for the establishment, but also for the employees. It's not about creating a hostile work environment by setting Nazi-like rules, or not trusting employees. It is setting a guideline and a level of acceptable customer service through training and work ethic.

Here is the scoop. And this is the very first I have told this to anyone. But, I walked away from a 15 year karaoke hosting "career" about 16 months ago. It wasn't because I was burned out or that it wasn't lucrative anymore. It was simply because I was tired of wasting my time spend away from my family. My kids grew up without me being home on weekends. My marriage was in shambles because of other issues not related to karaoke. I am now starting over again after 31 years of marriage. I left literally with only my vehicle, my stereo and my clothes. I have a good day job that has paid for everything, so I was pretty much debt free. Yet, I was going in the hole financially from my ex's overspending every single month. And I was feeling like I was not truly living, but merely surviving. It was time to make the change. So, I started over. I quit karaoke, but was talked into going back on a limited basis at one of my old venues. They love me there, and I love them. I have a great deal of respect for the owner, and consider him a truly good friend. But, shortly after I "quit", the owner had a stroke, and is no longer going to be able to manage his own bar. It fell onto the head bartender to accept responsiblites of "management". She is horrible at it, and the place is truly doomed to close one day, sooner or later.

Now, this is truly speculative, but the owner who had the stroke has no family (except a sister, who is also in poor health) he has no children, has never been married and has truly given his entire soul into the bar for over 50 years. His dad owned the place before him, and the owner now, (his name is Jim) has worked there since he was about 9 years old under his dad. He would mop and clean during the day for his dad. Can you picture his dedication? Since his stroke, the place has severely declined in most areas of care and service. Partly due to the bartender having NO work ethic, and is basically drunk on the job, spends more time smoking (hence this particular rule) and wastes time on her cell phone. But, there is a slim chance that if Jim pulls things together, and either sells and liquidates his assets while he still can, or he passes the ownership onto someone else. He has little or no faith in his current staff, and even before his stroke he still had problems with them. I am a "planner", and in the very slight chance that he might "will" ownership to me, (not that I am truly planning on it, or that I am arrogant enough to think this will happen), it's just that I see what is going on, and I would like to be prepared even on a small basis of what I would do if it were to happen. I see some of the things that are going on, and I would make changes at the place, starting with staff. There are some good ones for sure, and they would be invited to continue being a part of the bar family, if it is their choice. But, expectations would definitely be made known.

Cafebar, I truly do appreciate your input and insight. Your experience and knowledge is a fountain of information. Seeing others make bad choices and decisions is also a learning tool for me. I do my homework at every single thing I do, starting from planning my day, to making purchaces on larger ticket items. Do I make mistakes??? Absolutely!! Do I learn from them,,, yes I do. But it's not for the lack of planning.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:51 am 
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8) This is sort of like the idea of if I were King, or President for that matter. You can fantasize any number of ideal scenarios that will never come true. It is one thing when you are running a business like owner operator of a single rig karaoke service, and quite another one when you have to deal with employees. That is one reason I always ran a one man show, and never really wanted to be a multi rigger. I can just imagine what would have to be learned to run a venue, a whole new set of problems. Just my opinion of course.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:05 am 
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MrScott, I can give you some very practical advice on planning and managing a bar. It doesn't apply perfectly to every situation, but it will be useful to you. What you said about planning is key--there's a corny aphorism, "If you fail to plan, you plan to fail", that's true despite its corniness. When I started this place, it was the first business like it I had owned, and I started out with years of pro forma cash flow and P&L spreadsheets ('pro forma' is a fancy business term for 'guessing'). I learned to do business planning and spreadsheets just to create that plan, and it was worth $80K at the bank (unfortunately, they make you pay it back).

If I told you my system for organizing service (which, again, isn't universal, but it's well-thought-out), you'd better understand a structural rather than anecdotal approach to management. I'd be glad to send you a PM, and the planning will make you a better candidate to inherit the bar, or maybe borrow money and buy it outright while the guy's still around.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:25 am 
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Here is how I view it. Last night was the New Years Eve party and it was only slightly busier that it has been on a regular night. This simple response, or lack of response, by customers is hugely informative. It tells me that the bar is doing something that is counter productive to building business or drawing customers. They had the one bartender (the one in question) and two floor help. The two floor help are a mother and daughter team. Both smoke, yet neither of them went outside to take a drag the entire night (yes I was watching). The main bartender did her usual routine of spending time outside, hence customers were not being taken care of properly. The mother stepped in and took over at the bar in the absence of the scheduled bartender, leaving the floor uncovered adequately. The main bartender was already drunk by the time I arrived. So, who do you complain to, and get a proper resolution to an ongoing problem? This happens all the time there. Yes, I agree the hiring pool is extremely limited in the area, but it's all about training and expectations. And as an owner/manager that has a proper directive and goals in place, it makes all the difference. If you set the expectations so low just to accommodate people's poor choices, then you have sold your own standards. I have never believed in lowering my standands just to please someone else.

Oh, and by the way,, the mother/daughter duo are a terrific duo. However the husband/dad was also there, and I call him my friend,, and yes he even participates in activites. Yet he was so drunk, that he was a distraction for his wife and daughter to be able to focus fully on their jobs. In my opinion, he should have stayed home, or stayed sober.

These are not isolated incidents just at this venue. The night before, the new girlfriend and I went out for the evening and happened to go to a place in the city that I knew had pretty much everything I would want in a bar (except it is kind of in dis-repair). It has good food, friendly service and is a generally good place to go with a good history. The server didn't go outside once all night either, neither did the bartender (I don't know about the cook tho), but the KJ did. The place has a good reputation for decent karaoke, yet he struggled to maintain a full rotation the entire night. I wonder why. Could it be he didn't give proper service to the few that came to sing??? I believe so. This entire business isn't about karaoke, or drinking, or even food. It's about the people and taking care of their needs first and NOT the staff OR management. But, by taking care of what the demands of the customers bring, then the staff and management win at the same time. Put aside our personal quirks and act professionally. That is how I see it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:42 am 
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CafeBar wrote:
MrScott, I can give you some very practical advice on planning and managing a bar. It doesn't apply perfectly to every situation, but it will be useful to you. What you said about planning is key--there's a corny aphorism, "If you fail to plan, you plan to fail", that's true despite its corniness. When I started this place, it was the first business like it I had owned, and I started out with years of pro forma cash flow and P&L spreadsheets ('pro forma' is a fancy business term for 'guessing'). I learned to do business planning and spreadsheets just to create that plan, and it was worth $80K at the bank (unfortunately, they make you pay it back).

If I told you my system for organizing service (which, again, isn't universal, but it's well-thought-out), you'd better understand a structural rather than anecdotal approach to management. I'd be glad to send you a PM, and the planning will make you a better candidate to inherit the bar, or maybe borrow money and buy it outright while the guy's still around.


I am a very organized, methodical person who can make numbers sing an opera :) I understand the need for projections, goals, keeping quality/accurate records, bookkeeping, etc. My one area that I lack on, and this is trying to be accurately self-evaluating, is self doubt. I have struggled with confidence and self worth my entire life. It's not about me having no assets either, it's about my unwillingness to gamble and put myself out for the world to misuse or take advantage. I am learning for sure. I do not know whether I could succeed or not, I just have to believe that I COULD if I set myself up properly and take care of details and policy. Maybe I am destined to be an employee the rest of my life,,, but I would like to think I could also make a great boss too. I have been in management before in retail and I thought I did a great job. I had to change careers when I moved back home several years ago. The opportunities here are quite limited, so we do what we have to do to earn a living here. I am an intelligent person for sure, but if that is all that was necessary to be successful, there would be lots more successful people. I thank you for your offer, and I am definitely willing to listen and learn.

The smoking issue really isn't the "issue", it's personal ethics, in my opinion. And if a person has no ethics, then he has nothing.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:59 am 
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This area that I live/work in has certain needs that are not being addressed or served. For example, I have to drive 60 miles just to buy a proper pair of shoes for myself. The county I live in has a population about 30 thousand people. It's sort of spread out for sure, but we do have pockets of populations of 3-5 thousand people. There are 4 general population areas, with smaller outlying areas. The nearest city is 50 miles away. There is a Walmart, a Mcdonalds and 3 Subway sandwich shops. Those are the entire total of big business franchises or places to go. We have a small junior college, a meat processing plant, a couple of coal mines, and about a thousand small business's. So, in my view, there is a need for business growth. Owners are so stuck in the past that they are unwilling to make changes. Customer service is sorely lacking here, and so is professionalism. I used to work for the local grocery store a long time ago, (1983-1989), and I know this seems like ancient history, but it still applies. The owner back then had a survey taken and the results in my opinion were staggering. Just in grocery business alone, the come up with a figure of over $600,000 PER WEEK was leaving the county, and patronizing stores in the city. That was back when the population was only 17,000. And that was back then, if that number was adjusted to todays value, that would be over a million per week.... And THAT is huge!! And it's all because people are unwilling to change their policies and thinking to be able to put customers first. Am I preaching? Am I being idealistic?? Possibly. I just see the need for change.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:17 pm 
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If I owned a bar, it would be a sports bar and it would have entertainment. I'd make damn sure there was a stage, an awesome house sound system, awesome lighting and 1 tv per about 10 patrons capacity. 200 person capacity, 20 tvs. The stage would have the proper inputs for bands, soloists, djs and kjs to plug into the house system. I'd have an AV guy that knew every inch of the system and pay him well to operate, maintain, repair and improve it as needed. It would have strong wifi. It would have a great marketing team. It would have a well trained, well paid staff. It would have plenty of well lit parking. It would have a drunk bus available at all times. It would have clean bathrooms. It would have a a well paid cleaning staff. That would be a good start.

I've never seen an area like the Jersey Shore that puts together these great bars and completely overlooks things like entertainment. It's like an afterthought. No stage, no sound, no lights, but oh, let's stuff these bands in a corner, right on top of the bar, blow out the people at the bar and oh, the people in the back can't hear chit. I can't stand cheap, uneducated, just plain ignorant bar owners.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:42 pm 
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If I owned a bar... it would be a singers dream. I would invest in big stage sound and lights to create an environment that made the singer feel like they'd be putting on a concert every time. I would hold draws to have a singer every month put on a 4 song set with a live band once a month. I would marry high end karaoke with high end food and drinks. I don't know what's it's like other places but out here, karaoke ends up in dive bars, and I've never seen a place with a wide beer and wine selection have karaoke lol.

I dunno.... it's a dream, but mayeb one day.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:44 pm 
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I'll put my two cents in on this topic. My djs are in bars and restaurants 6 nights a week, multiple shows per night, so I see and have seen a lot over the years. Bottom line, drunks should not buy or run bars, sounds like common sense, you'd think. Question for Mr Scott, do you think the bar manager is purchasing drinks all night long while working? I'm going to bet not, so there's more problems here than running out smoking. Somebody better buy the bar before it goes under because reviving it after it closes is much tougher.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:13 pm 
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mrscott wrote:
If they are such great employees, they would not waste time spending literally hours outside each day lighting up.

if they are non smokers...what are they literally wasting hours outside during their required breaks doing? if they smoke or not, the break time is the same...and it's is mandated they take them.

mrscott wrote:
And if it is actually their break time, and they feel the need to have a nicotine fix, maybe I could concede them calming their nerves with a smoke break. However, if they are truly "quality" employees, they probably would be able to control their habits long enough to get through a shift.


i can see you have never had an addiction. i was considered a light smoker, and would smoke on lunch break. you are saying that i am not a quality employee? are you actually saying that hosts here that smoke a quick one during a long song are not quality?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:37 pm 
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MrScott, I agree that the bar service you're describing appears to be going downhill in the owner's absence, but I'd suggest looking at roots instead of branches.

The bartender's problem is that she drinks on the job and appears to be indifferent to customer service. That's a deal-killer. It's interesting that you focus on smoking, because you say the two cocktail staff do a good job and don't take excessive breaks even though they're smokers. So smoking isn't the problem.

Similarly, your complaint about the drunk husband coming in is valid, because he's drunk and distracts the staff. But it's illegal to serve a visibly intoxicated person (VIP, and not in the good way), so there's no reason for him to be there. That's the problem, not that he's a spouse. It's also reasonable to reserve the right to ban 'significant others' from the bar if they divert attention away from guests, and when employees are told that they'll keep it in check.

Your takeaway from this is that you don't want smokers or spouses in the bar, but those are not the primary problem in either case, IMO. In a well managed bar, neither would be a problem--just as you observed, all three servers smoke, and it's only an issue with one of them, who's a lousy server no matter what.

Like I said, roots before branches. If someone has gangrene in his leg, you don't give a pedicure.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:49 pm 
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Krisko wrote:
If I owned a bar... it would be a singers dream. I would invest in big stage sound and lights to create an environment that made the singer feel like they'd be putting on a concert every time. I would hold draws to have a singer every month put on a 4 song set with a live band once a month. I would marry high end karaoke with high end food and drinks. I don't know what's it's like other places but out here, karaoke ends up in dive bars, and I've never seen a place with a wide beer and wine selection have karaoke lol.

I dunno.... it's a dream, but mayeb one day.


Those are good ideas. You should maybe put them out as a program to a bar that's looking for entertainment, as a step toward doing your own place. We do a monthly event where people can sing a couple of songs with a band and it's pretty fun. You have to find the right musicians.

Mine is just a little dive bar, and though we have an alright sound system and a few lights, we sort of go the opposite direction and try to make it feel like you're singing in your living room rather than a stage show. Part of that is constraints of a small place, and part of it is what makes people there comfortable. The stage show thing works great, too, and it competes well against home karaoke.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:27 am 
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Here's what I see during a karaoke show:

1) minors coming in with fake ID
2) people coming into the club after drinking from home.
3) people drinking from their cars in the parking lot then entering the bar to socialize/sing karaoke.
4) bar staff serving alcohol to those already intoxicated.
5) over-served patrons that over stay there visit.
6) fights break out every night.

Most of these can be overlooked by simply hiring a doorman/security.

Here in Canada there is a "Smart Serve" that is required for bartenders to comply with and in my views, not many seem to follow.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:28 am 
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Here's what I see during a karaoke show:

1) minors coming in with fake ID
2) people coming into the club after drinking from home.
3) people drinking from their cars in the parking lot then entering the bar to socialize/sing karaoke.
4) bar staff serving alcohol to those already intoxicated.
5) over-served patrons that over stay there visit.
6) fights break out every night.

Most of these can be overlooked by simply hiring a doorman/security.

Here in Canada there is a "Smart Serve" that is required for bartenders to comply with and in my views, not many seem to follow.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:40 am 
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8) One thing to think about is most small business's fail in the first 10 years, just a fact. Going into business for one's self is a risk. If you are adverse to taking risks and not a gambler, owning and running a small business might not be for you. The successful operators of small business's are married to the enterprise, that is why many owners have family problems. So much time is drained away by the business there is no time for family. It sounds that you might be a real hands on person which can be good up to a point, there comes the time you have to delegate authority to others, which might be a problem if you don't fully trust them. One thing I realized about myself is that I work better alone than with others, running a bar is a team effort, they are looking for a captain, not a micro manager.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:49 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
8) One thing to think about is most small business's fail in the first 10 years, just a fact. Going into business for one's self is a risk. If you are adverse to taking risks and not a gambler, owning and running a small business might not be for you. The successful operators of small business's are married to the enterprise, that is why many owners have family problems. So much time is drained away by the business there is no time for family. It sounds that you might be a real hands on person which can be good up to a point, there comes the time you have to delegate authority to others, which might be a problem if you don't fully trust them. One thing I realized about myself is that I work better alone than with others, running a bar is a team effort, they are looking for a captain, not a micro manager.


Thank you .. that is one of the very few posts that actually make sense and responds to my questions. You are partially right, I am definitely a "hands on" type of person. However, when I was in management, it was my responsibility to train my staff in day to day operations and oversee (rather than do myself) their performance. The departments I managed were absolutely THE BEST ran departments in the entire store. So I have no doubt in myself as a "leader". What I have a doubt in myself is the willingness to gamble and invest as much money as it would take to make a bar like I have described come to life. I have no doubt that I could run one successfully tho. I just get very nervous with that much at stake. And it's not that I don't trust others to do their jobs, that part comes with training, and I am a terrific trainer. I am patient and don't let it get personal when they are slow to learn.


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