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Pa equipment - Does size really matter.
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Author:  CostaKaraoke [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:14 am ]
Post subject:  Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

Hi Guys. I would appreciate your thoughts. I have been using HK Lucas system for the past 11 years. Due to my advancing years I am thinking of down sizing. Current system is 600 watts, 15 inch bass and 8 inch sat speakers. The sound is great but the equipment is heavy. I love HK stuff and they do do a nano system. The question as above, if I go smaller am I going to lose sound quality? Example system Bose tower and equivalent systems. Regards.

Author:  Alan B [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

There are many good 15 inch systems out there that are lightweight and offer good sound. The ElectroVoice ZLX-15 and the Peavey PVX-15 are two examples. I am using the Peaveys. The sound is awesome and the bass is so good that you wouldn't need to use a sub-woofer in all but the largest venues. For example, I recently did a company party that was held in an auditorium about the size of a High School Gym. Without any sub-woofer, the Peaveys handled it beautifully. They filled the room with great sound the bass was more than adequate. All in all, just these two speakers powered the room with awesome sound. Crystal clear highs and powerful bass. I received many compliments on the sound. With todays advancement in speaker components, you can get good sound out of lightweight cabinets.

The thing is, if you have a good set of 15's, you really don't need a sub unless you're working at a club and want to shake the walls. So, if you want to streamline things, get rid of the subs and get a good pair of 15's (that are lightweight but offer great sound like the ones mentioned above) and you'll be set to go. Of course, this is just my opinion but it's been working for me and my back loves it.

Author:  CostaKaraoke [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

Hi Alan. Thanks for your prompt reply. My current system is an active system with amp in the bass speaker. I was more interested in the new light weight Bose TYPE systems. Looking at some earlier threads though, the pole dancer problem maybe an issue. There is an older type Bose system in the bar which I have tried briefly, but it didn't do it for me, but this could be down to my bloody mindedness with regards to size does matter. I know some of you have taken a leap of faith regarding lighter units, but sound is all important to me as I am sure it is for many of you on this forum. The following link is one that I am considering. I don't think the HK systems are that popular in the US though.

http://www.thomann.de/es/hk_audio_lucas ... 0wod7W4EbA

Author:  Robin Dean [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

The Bose L1 model II with a B2 bass (2-10" cab) is a fine sounding system. Very compact, but pricey! Might freak some folks out to hear what they actually sound like too! lol

Stage placement is totally different than a 'traditional' front loaded PA, and eliminates the need for separate monitor usage.

Author:  Alan B [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

CostaKaraoke wrote:
Hi Alan. Thanks for your prompt reply. My current system is an active system with amp in the bass speaker. I was more interested in the new light weight Bose TYPE systems. Looking at some earlier threads though, the pole dancer problem maybe an issue. There is an older type Bose system in the bar which I have tried briefly, but it didn't do it for me, but this could be down to my bloody mindedness with regards to size does matter. I know some of you have taken a leap of faith regarding lighter units, but sound is all important to me as I am sure it is for many of you on this forum. The following link is one that I am considering. I don't think the HK systems are that popular in the US though.

http://www.thomann.de/es/hk_audio_lucas ... 0wod7W4EbA

I have never been a fan of Bose. Bose will provide you with the least value for your money. Now, what does that mean?

For example, in a $2000 Bose system, you are not getting $2000 of quality components. You're buying a system that should only cost $349, not $2000. Bose has always offered inferior components in their systems. Where Bose shines is in their marketing. They are marketing geniuses. Anybody that can sell a system that should sell for no more than $349 for $2000 is a marketing genius.

The same applies to their overprice plastic junk home systems. I would take Behringer speakers over Bose any day.

My wife and I bought two identical SUV's at the same time. Mine came with the Bose premium sound system and hers came with the stock factory system. Guess what? Hers blows the Bose away.

I know that some folks here use them and like them but Bose, to me, is junk. Overpriced for what you're getting. I have no problem paying the price for quality. Usually the term, "you get what you pay for" applies. In the case of Bose, it does not. That's why I say with Bose, you will get the least value for your money.

You're better off sticking with a traditional system. Just about any of them, including the ones I mentioned above, will blow the Bose out of the water. So, if quality sound is important to you, look elsewhere.

A few months ago I went to a fellow KJ's show. He was using a Bose L1 system complete with subs. I was not impressed. Two weeks later he came to my show. After listening to my system his response was "what was I thinking"? Now he's sorry he invested in them when he could've had better sound at a much cheaper price.

Author:  Alan B [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

Please read this article from CNET.... Read the Whole Article. I couldn't have said it any better, although I tried above.

http://www.cnet.com/forums/discussions/the-honest-to-god-truth-about-bose-speakers-amen-165323/

It mainly applies to their home systems but their same concept holds true for their pro line as well. As someone put it, anyone who buys Bose is a sucker.

Author:  Robin Dean [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

The OP spoke of portability. Not sure what comes close to the BOSE pro line stuff in that regard. And articulated/line arrays are what every serious sound support system uses now, period.

As far as sound quality goes I've heard many systems, in many venues. Don't confuse SPL with quality of sound. The Bose L1's, when set up correctly, have better sound quality than 99% of what's used now in karaoke land.

Author:  RLC [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

Alan B wrote:
I have never been a fan of Bose. Bose will provide you with the least value for your money. Now, what does that mean?

For example, in a $2000 Bose system, you are not getting $2000 of quality components. You're buying a system that should only cost $349, not $2000. Bose has always offered inferior components in their systems. Where Bose shines is in their marketing. They are marketing geniuses. Anybody that can sell a system that should sell for no more than $349 for $2000 is a marketing genius.

The same applies to their overprice plastic junk home systems. I would take Behringer speakers over Bose any day.

My wife and I bought two identical SUV's at the same time. Mine came with the Bose premium sound system and hers came with the stock factory system. Guess what? Hers blows the Bose away.

I know that some folks here use them and like them but Bose, to me, is junk. Overpriced for what you're getting. I have no problem paying the price for quality. Usually the term, "you get what you pay for" applies. In the case of Bose, it does not. That's why I say with Bose, you will get the least value for your money.

You're better off sticking with a traditional system. Just about any of them, including the ones I mentioned above, will blow the Bose out of the water. So, if quality sound is important to you, look elsewhere.

A few months ago I went to a fellow KJ's show. He was using a Bose L1 system complete with subs. I was not impressed. Two weeks later he came to my show. After listening to my system his response was "what was I thinking"? Now he's sorry he invested in them when he could've had better sound at a much cheaper price.


I knew when I saw the word "Bose" in the OP's first post it wouldn't take long for our resident "Bose Basher, Bose Hater" to appear.
Just sayin....

Author:  BigJer [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

I'm not up on the ZLX series, but I have the cheaper ELX-12s.

They weigh just a bit over 30 lbs each. The built in DSP let's you totally change the sound according to your purpose and you can set the crossover frequencies for a sub using the internal electronics

I set them in club mode and use them as tops in a nightclub with an occupancy of 257 along with an old Peavey SP18 sub.

I really like using subs, so I use them in smaller clubs with an EV 12" extended range sub corner loaded, but for most karaoke shows at most venues I think they would have more than enough bass by themselves.

The little EV sub I use weighs even less than the tops since it's passive.

As far as portability I cram it all into a Kia Spectra.

Author:  Lonman [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

BigJer wrote:
I'm not up on the ZLX series, but I have the cheaper ELX-12s.
The ELX series are more expensive than the ZLX series.

Author:  BigJer [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

I know I got the cheaper one, so maybe I got confused, but the elx 12 are $299 now at zzounds now

The zlx are $399 at zzounds.

I do think you're right that the zlxs were the cheaper one and that sounds more like what I recall. The price inversion is confusing for me. Sorry, I do think I got my models inverted.

Ooh and zzounds is offering a rebate for free covers!!!

Author:  BigJer [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

If I didn't think my wife would kill me I'd be all over that deal on the ELX 12s with free covers for $299.

Author:  Alan B [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

Robin Dean wrote:
The Bose L1's, when set up correctly, have better sound quality than 99% of what's used now in karaoke land.

You must be living in La La Land. I'm sure even Lonman with his technical expertise would disagree with that statement.

Author:  Alan B [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

RLC wrote:
Alan B wrote:
I have never been a fan of Bose. Bose will provide you with the least value for your money. Now, what does that mean?

For example, in a $2000 Bose system, you are not getting $2000 of quality components. You're buying a system that should only cost $349, not $2000. Bose has always offered inferior components in their systems. Where Bose shines is in their marketing. They are marketing geniuses. Anybody that can sell a system that should sell for no more than $349 for $2000 is a marketing genius.

The same applies to their overprice plastic junk home systems. I would take Behringer speakers over Bose any day.

My wife and I bought two identical SUV's at the same time. Mine came with the Bose premium sound system and hers came with the stock factory system. Guess what? Hers blows the Bose away.

I know that some folks here use them and like them but Bose, to me, is junk. Overpriced for what you're getting. I have no problem paying the price for quality. Usually the term, "you get what you pay for" applies. In the case of Bose, it does not. That's why I say with Bose, you will get the least value for your money.

You're better off sticking with a traditional system. Just about any of them, including the ones I mentioned above, will blow the Bose out of the water. So, if quality sound is important to you, look elsewhere.

A few months ago I went to a fellow KJ's show. He was using a Bose L1 system complete with subs. I was not impressed. Two weeks later he came to my show. After listening to my system his response was "what was I thinking"? Now he's sorry he invested in them when he could've had better sound at a much cheaper price.


I knew when I saw the word "Bose" in the OP's first post it wouldn't take long for our resident "Bose Basher, Bose Hater" to appear.
Just sayin....

I'll bash them all night long. They're a company that is selling a "name", not a quality product. They sell junk and charge an arm and a leg for it. And that's a fact. Click on the link I posted above and read the CNET article about them. Or, live in a fantasy world and think that they're just the greatest thing ever! In which case, they've accomplished their marketing goal.

Author:  JimHarrington [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

BigJer wrote:
I know I got the cheaper one, so maybe I got confused, but the elx 12 are $299 now at zzounds now

The zlx are $399 at zzounds.

I do think you're right that the zlxs were the cheaper one and that sounds more like what I recall. The price inversion is confusing for me. Sorry, I do think I got my models inverted.

Ooh and zzounds is offering a rebate for free covers!!!


ELX and ZLX are generally the same price for passives. For the powered version, the ELX is considerably more expensive.

Author:  RLC [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

Alan B wrote:
I'll bash them all night long. They're a company that is selling a "name", not a quality product. They sell junk and charge an arm and a leg for it. And that's a fact. Click on the link I posted above and read the CNET article about them. Or, live in a fantasy world and think that they're just the greatest thing ever! In which case, they've accomplished their marketing goal.

Alan, I do not live in a fantasy world. I use Bose products. I own a Bose L1M1, 2 B1’s, a B2 along with the A1 amp, a T1 Tone Match and a L1 Compact. I have gotten and still get nothing but compliments on the sound in both karaoke gigs and when used to DJ a wedding.
So excuse me if I take the many, many compliments I have received as a truer representation of the Bose sound over your I hate “Bose” spewing posts.
Yes, they are expensive (compared to a traditional PA).
Yes you can get every bit of quality sound out of a traditional PA setup for a lot less money. I have stated that before and still state it today.
I am, however, convinced that you can’t get the ease of setup and the light weight of the Bose in a traditional PA. This was my main reason for switching from a traditional PA to a Bose system.
Yes they cost me more money but you know what Alan, it was My money! Not your money!
And I obviously felt the cost was reasonable for what I was getting…great sound, ease of setup and light weight.
You seem to have such a hatred for Bose that you actually seek out opportunities to spew forth your hatred for the Bose company. There has to be more to the story of your vitriol hatred for Bose.
It goes way beyond an opinion…it is pure hatred.
You have shown your hatred for Bose so many times it is like a broken record and has diluted your opinion of Bose to the status of not noteworthy.
Unfortunately new posters and posters that may not have seen your multiple hate spewing posts about Bose might actually give your opinion some validity.
Thus the reason for my post.
Have a nice day Alan

Author:  Alan B [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

RLC wrote:
Alan B wrote:
I'll bash them all night long. They're a company that is selling a "name", not a quality product. They sell junk and charge an arm and a leg for it. And that's a fact. Click on the link I posted above and read the CNET article about them. Or, live in a fantasy world and think that they're just the greatest thing ever! In which case, they've accomplished their marketing goal.

Alan, I do not live in a fantasy world. I use Bose products.

First, let me say that I am really glad that they are working out for you. As long as they suit your needs and you're willing to pay the price, as you have stated, is all that matters.

Enjoy,
Alan

Author:  BigJer [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

Thanks Jim. I googled active, but yes you are quite right, that deal was for passive.

My apologies for my errors. Not a good day for me when it comes to attention to detail.

Author:  BigJer [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

Loaded in the Kia backseat.

Fast SST up? No. Portable? Yep.

Attachments:
File comment: Portable!
IMG_20160425_222727275.jpg
IMG_20160425_222727275.jpg [ 1.02 MiB | Viewed 25672 times ]

Author:  Robin Dean [ Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pa equipment - Does size really matter.

Alan B wrote:
Robin Dean wrote:
The Bose L1's, when set up correctly, have better sound quality than 99% of what's used now in karaoke land.

You must be living in La La Land. I'm sure even Lonman with his technical expertise would disagree with that statement.

So, I take it you only use custom installed Renkus-Heinz systems at your gigs?

But of course, what else would an expert have!

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