Karaoke Forums

Jus a few things
How do you determine sound levels? pre show start of show mid show late night I try to begin low and go up from there...

OH YEA who is the idiot that designs bars and clubs for music delivery SHEESH

Also here is a baffler question
I have a great monitor mix...thats what I can hear and tune perfect from my location on stage.
The crowd speakers I have some MASSIVE 18 inch 3 way Cerwin Vegas that are primo and i turn the moni off so I can try to adjust the crowd level background vs vocal then adjust volume and it seems when I walk out to listen I am always a bit off either overall too loud or voval or back need adjust.
Question is without using someone in crowd with signals how to adjust PERFECT ( thats the type show I want) for each singer. I use a Cavs unit and that also adds to the heartache of volume levels

Loneman may have a better answer for you ..... but for me.
I face the far speakers towards me and the side speakers to the center of the room then you hear the full mix from where you are sitting. With the monitor off you will probably hear what a majority of the crowd hears because the sound surrounds them and all things being equal should be the same at your perspective.

If you face the audience with two speakers only then you have to do a sound check form the other end.

usually the more people in the bar dictates how loud you have to run the equipment because people absorb sound.

Just my thoughts

A 2 month old KJ!

What will that dancing baby do next?

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

Karaoke discs/tracks and singer volumes can vary quite a bit, as does the overall crowd noise. I find monitoring useful for mixing the two together, however, unless you're set up is out front, you ought to plan to venture out periodically to check the mains. It's also a good opportunity to socialize with the crowd, and greet/encourage new people to give it a try. As for what level to go for, I don't think there is a single answer. I try to keep the level up somewhat since karaoke is the main event, but not so much that people can't hear each other and the bar staff can't hear the drink orders, while maintaining decent sound quality.

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Sounds Great! Entertainment
Bartlett, Illinois

There are such variations from one disc to the next, as well as one singer to the next, that I end up adjusting every song. I do also wander around the room almost all night long just checking. I start off sort of low as a lot of people in the crowd are still eating. Then, as the night goes on, so does the volume go up. But without wandering around the crowd, its hard to tell what its gonna sound like "out there".

Is your monitor mix independent from your main mix or is it just tapped off the main signal? This will make a difference on the sound especially if the speakers are of different make & size. Cerwin Vega speakers are killer for DJ speakers, but they are designed with the DJ in mind so they are internally eq'd along the same lines as home speakers which is probably why you are getting two entirely different sounds between your mains & monitors.

You also don't mention what other equipment you are running so it's kind of hard to picture your set-up.

The bar you are working at, does it normally have bands or are you just set-up somewhere that you'll fit? Not all bars are "designed" for music delivery & often times aren't. That is why karaoke is such a versatile form of entertainment, it can fit where other kinds of entertainment can't.

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What you need is a mixer with a level set indicator. In the olden days we used VU meters. Today we use a row of LEDs that light up in order from bottom to top with the music. At the top of the row of LEDs is a red clip indicator light to prevent you from clipping. Next is a yellow "maximum level" light. This light may or may not flash with the downbeat. It doesn't really matter, but you don't want it on all the time.

The way to use it is as follows:
Put on a disk and adj. the output from the music's channel as described above using the level set.
Adj. your PAs the same way, and then adj your monitors with the level set.
You can then adj. your PAs or your monitor levels to how loud you want them using the level set, without any danger of over driving either one.
You can adj your PAs and momitors together or separately.

The bottom line is that you can put on a disk and adj your PAs and monitors together to the same level in an instant and then you can do the same with the mic channel. When the singer starts to sing you adj him with the level set and his volume will instantly be set to match the music.

You can adj the whole smear, mics, PAs, monitors, return from a sound processor, (when assigned a channel), and music independantly of each other, or all together as one.

With the level set you can adj 3 or 4 backup singers to each other. You can then call them a sub mix, and then adj this sub mix, (using the level set), to everything else.

Once your mixer is adjusted you can put on a disk that has been recorded at a high volume, ie. AC/DC not Sinatra, and turn everything up as far as it will go and then turn on your amp and adj it to its max level and never touch it again. If it has a clip indicator light, bring up the output,(volume), until it lights up and then bring it down until it just goes off. If you don't have a clip indicator try running it at 2/3 its max volume.

You can run the monitors with a channel that is independant from the output to the mains and adj thier eq seperately and still bring thier vol up and down independantly from the main mix, or right along with the main mix.

A level set has 2 rows of lights. This is to balance one channel that is receiving a send from another channel to that channel. For example: the channel that handles the music has a send that goes to a sound processer and there is a return from the processer to another channel for eq adj rather than back to a simple return that doesn't have any eq adjustments. One row of lights shows you what the music channel is doing and the other is showing you what the processer's channel is doing. You then adj the processer's channel to match, (or be higher or lower than), the music channel using the level set.

I know that is as clear as mud. Every mixer is differant, and learning to properly use a level set is a real learning experience. Once you've learned how do this, adjusting a singer will become a snap.

Knowing all this complicated BS will give you the confidence and power to command big bucks for your shows.

Every mixer is differant. I use a Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro.
For a compleate technical explaination, (that will REALLY bogle your mind), on how do do this with the VLZ Pro go to blahblahblah.Mackie.whatever.

Note: When you go to adj the parametric eq, (tone control), for vocals, use the hi adj to remove sibilance, or essing. This is when every letter "S" that is pronounced jumps out and bites you. Adj the hi eq to as high as it will go and then drop it down until all siblance is gone.
Next look at the low and mid eq as bass and treble. I'm putting it this way in case your mixer has low and hi, (bass and treble), only.
Most of the tone adjustments that you will make for voice will be with the mid eq, (treble).

When you get a low voiced male singer, turn down the bass to remove muddyness or boomyness, then turn up the mid eq to give some life to his voice.
When you get a screechy female, do the opposite. Turn down the mid to remove the screechyness and turn up the bass to add some richness and depth, or warmth, to her voice.

Good Luck!

AWESOME keep it coming!!!
Here is what I have for a setup. Running a CavsJB 99 A yamaha emx860ST powered mixer. The reason I chose this is only because it has 3 internal amps. 1 for the cerwin vegas 1 for the unpurchased Subs and the other for the monitor which is a peavey tlms12 inch. I run the music out of the Cavs into a dual 15 EQ and then from there into the amp.

The way I set up to play I flat line everything and then begin at the amp and adjust the 3 levels hi med lows then I eq off the 7 band on the unit ....by now im sounding pretty good...Then I start pulling in the Dual 15 and things end up soundin pretty good tho I am close to GREAT sound I am not there yet.

I stroll the crowd all the time and the basis for my question was that I go out and 9 times out of 10 have to go back up to adjust the levels.
I read the post from Kojak and here is how that works for me I have the led indicators and when I turn up the main to 3/4 which is the marked spot and then try to add with the channels I get to turn up that to 1 what I am saying is that things GET LOUD REAL FAST.
I am going back to reread and see if I can make sense of all of this
The next mixer I am lookin for is a peavey xr1600 just missed one on ebay for 630.00 Please keep replying and if anyone would like to talk on phone to help me out I will be happy to place the call

I couldn't find any info on your mixer at the Yamaha website.
Before you go out and buy anything, I have a change in tactics that you might want to consider.
Use one amp for one of your Cerwin Vegas, and one amp for the other. You can now add an additional set of speakers by connecting each new speaker to each of the Cerwin Vegas in parallel. This is assuming that Your Cerwin Vegas are 8 ohm speakers. If you add an 8 ohm speaker to an 8 ohm speaker, you'll go down to 4 ohms which all pro amps handle. The maximum power that you will from the amp will go up also. Use the 3rd amp to drive your monitors. If you're using only one monitor you can add another one by connecting it to the first the same way that you can with the PAs.
Now the big question is what to do about a sub?
Get one that is powered and has an adjustable internal crossover, and connect it to a simple line out from your mixer.
I'll give you some more input to think about later.
Good Luck!

http://www.nordfjordhallen.com/Utstyr/emx860st_8.htm

http://www.nordfjordhallen.com/DataBlad/EMXYam.pdf

Here is the info on his mixer/amp.

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here's a good way to cheat on keeping the levels stable from one cdg to the next.. get a compressor/ gate / expander.. i have in my 1,2,&3 systems a DBX drive rack which controls the house levels.. BUT also an insertable one at each console to control the obnoxious levels from one media and vocals from to another which is contolled by a Presonus ACP-8 it does all 3 functions plus a high and low pass filter in one sitting all in 2 rack spaces i love the toys.. when you know the toys.. and know how to use them properly and you can make the singers sound good you can make them happy. that's where the money comes in. i still make the money. and can be choosey about where i work.

If any of you are able to find a copy of DJ Times.. there is an article there on "30 ways to to make your gig go easier" it's in the August 2003 back issue.. you might be able to find it on thier web.. I STRESS the word MIGHT...there was a couple of great things in there about amp tuning and cable management.. some may like it some may not..

Good Hunting.. i found a copy sorting out my storage..

ladies and gentlemen, we are talking about the prodigy from HE-ll. I`ve never heard of a two-month old that could talk, much less be a kj.